3rd Gear Issues, etc? SOLTUION HERE, PLEASE READ!

[Vinc84]

Hello everyone I joined this forum just to respond to this thread. I have done so Edmunds originally and at other forum boards under the same name Vinc84. This is an issue I have looked heavily into and am in the works of getting my 07 Civic SI fixed for good. Please note that I am simply going to copy & paste my original postings from Edmunds on here. You can find the original Edmunds thread by Googling: Honda Civic SI 3rd Gear or by visiting this link: http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/558 It will be the very first link that Google draws up. In my posts I heavily describe how I've experienced the fauly 3rd Gear issue, and I know many of you will be able to relate to what I've written. I've also written about my trips to the dealership and how my car was after I changed the MTF to Amsoil Syncromesh (My Honda Dealership looked this up on their updated service computer and agreed that this is indeed the Honda recommended fluid and yes if your car does not have it you should get it b/c it is now what ALL recent Civic SIs should have). And finally I write to inform about an official Honda released transmission fix, which is like a recall but at the same time not a recall. So please read and if you have any questions you are welcome to e-mail me at: vinc@umd.edu <FONT COLOR=""Red"">Here are my posts:</FONT> <FONT COLOR=""red"">vinc84 - Dec 4, 2007 7:09 am (#26 Total: 30) </FONT> Tuesday December 04 2007 - 9:45am Hello to all you other '06-'07 owners and to you curious would-be Si-owners. I am currently writing this comment from my local Honda dealership. I have experienced the sluggish 3rd gear from since the first week I purchased my '07 Civic Si. The third gear started out being a little stiff but overall shifting was smooth. After the break-in period of about 1000 - 1500 miles, it got much worse. The first 3rd-gear grind occured somewhere between 700 - 1000 miles, and thereafter I'd say I get the missed-gear and/or grind at least once or twice every two weeks...each time that it has happened it wrenched my heart. Anyways, I'm at about 14,500 miles now and I've gotten fed up with the 3rd gear issue. Last Friday I brought my car here and spoke to the manager of the service dept. and told him all about the issue. Apparently, Honda recognizes the 3rd gear issue for both the Civic Si and the recent S2000s as well. Both cars are recommened a transmission fluid swap from the original fluid to Amsoil Syncromesh (as others on here have already stated, I am just plugging that Honda verifies and in fact recommends this fluid). So I got my transmission fluid changed to the Amsoil Syncromesh for no service fee since my car is stil under warranty. The manager told me everything should run smoothly now and to give it another try and if the same problem persists even after the transmission fluid swap, then the warranty will cover for even a transmission overhaul if it is required. Well, I drove my Si around this past weekend and I will say positively that the transmission fluid does in fact improve the smoothness of the shifting. However, my third gear still seemed 'damaged' from all the grinds it had received before I got the new transmission fluid. Even though it's improved a lot - it still hangs a bit. And as fate would have it, while driving yesterday the third gear didn't take and it kicked my shift knob right back at me...and if I wasn't already familiar with the routine then I would have grinded the gear yet again! Upset, I brought the car back and told the service manager that the problem occured again and that even though the transmission fluid probably would have fixed the problem if I got it changed from day one - it is simply now a problem with how damaged and frayed my 3rd gear is and also how damaged the shaft that slides in and out of the gears has gotten from being chipped at from the 3rd-gear 'grindage'. Well, the result of that long story is that I am now sitting here at the dealership while the manager is waiting on confirmation with Honda Tech to see what parts they're going to need for a transmission overhaul. My Si is fully paid off, still new, and under warranty thankfully. I am expecting that it will be fixed to the state that it should have been in when I purchased the car. We as a consumer deserve the best in performance from our Civic Sis. If you are truely concerned about the long-term health of your transmission and you are experiencing the 3rd-gear issues - then I suggest you go look into it at your dealership and get it fixed while your warranty will still cover it. It really is a shame that some of the '06 - '07 Civic Si transmissions are faulty by default from manufacture. If you're looking into buying one, then make sure the car has had the Amsoil Syncromesh fluid put into the car before you take it off the lot...it will make your life so much easier. I'm pretty certain you won't have any problems at all if you buy the car with the Amsoil Syncromesh already in the car. I will be posting another update with further news about my car for the curious. Good luck everyone. Vincent T. (Maryland) '07 Civic Si Nighthawk Pearl w/ Nav <FONT COLOR=""red"">vinc84 - Dec 5, 2007 4:29 pm (#27 Total: 30) </FONT> Okay guys, I have big/good news: The service manager at my local dealership got the word in and told me that Honda now officially recognizes fauly transmissions for its 6-speed transmission cars - as far as '03 Civic Si all the way to recent '08 models - including S2000s, Accords, and 6-speed Acuras. There WILL be a fix issued in January 2008 - the exact date is not announced or known yet. This is not a total recall on all 6-speeds. Cars will be addressed in a case by case basis - basically if someone has a problem and it is recognized as being related to the confirmed 6-speed transmission issues - your dealership is obligated to fix your car for you free of charge, even if your car is no longer under warranty (past mileage or years). The fix: I didn't get very many details but basically I was told that for the the '06 - '07 Civic Si models (maybe '08 as well) that there is a transmission kit in the works that will fix the problems everyone is talking about - basically a crappy 3rd-gear and the hanging, grinding, and rejection when shifting. The tranny fix will change the gear syncrhos for gear 1 through 6 and will fix and improve the shifting of not only the 3rd gear, but of the gear box entirely. For those of us who get this fix, they will basically give you a new transmission - new fresh gears and re-synchronized, etc. Awesome. Conlcusion: So, everyone who's experiencing any problems at all - nows the time to bring your Si into the dealership and bring up the problem and ask about the transmission fix that's been announced. If the manager or service worker has no idea what you're talking about - tell them to contact Honda Motor Corp and ask because they should have been updated with instructions about the coming transmission fixes - the manager I spoke to didn't know but he had the intelligence to look into my problem further to find out if there was one. Good luck everyone, by the Jan 2008 this issue should be taken care of once and for all, so go get your Si fixed. To anyone looking into buying the Si - I suggest you wait until January comes around so that the fix takes. Just make sure you're buying an Si that has the new transmission layout and the new required transmission fluid in it. Vincent T. (Maryland) '07 Civic Si Nighthawk Pearl w/ Nav [<FONT COLOR=""red"">B]steve2333 - Dec 27, 2007 8:18 am (#28 Total: 30) [/b]</FONT> Thanks Vincent, The information you provided was needed and accurately desribed the problems I was experiencing. It saved me the bother of trying again to get my dealership to work on the problem without "replicating" it first. I read your post to the Service Manager, and then he finally understood (or accepted what I had been telling them). Steve2333 <FONT COLOR=""red"">vinc84 - Jan 13, 2008 2:10 am (#30 Total: 30) </FONT> That's awesome Steve I'm glad you didn't have to wait for those service guys to replicate the scenario in their test drives. I find it probably impossible to replicate the issue unless one of them actually owned you car for a few days and drove it from cold start to run a few errands. And no one has the time or the trust to loan their car out to someone just to show them what the problem is. It is good that your service manager took my post at face value. Originally I printed out this threat before I posted on it to show MY service manager. He tried to replicate the problem, but to no avail. At least he knew about the Amsoil Syncromesh and changed that for me for free. But after that didn't really work to well, he found out about the transmission fix by Honda. So I'm thankful for that and I hope we all get that fix soon. Did your service manager also learn about the transmission fix and have you received it yet or are you still in the process as well? Let me know how it goes for you, good luck. Vincent T. (Maryland) '07 Civic Si Nighthawk Pearl w/ Nav email: vinc@umd.edu <FONT COLOR=""red"">vinc84 - Jan 13, 2008 1:47 am (#29 Total: 30)</FONT> Hello everyone it's me again, I hope everyone enjoyed their holidays. It is now the middle of January 2008 and I haven't gotten in contact with the service manager at my local Honda dealership concerning that transmission-kit fix yet. He said he would call me when it's available but of course he probably would forget... So, this coming Monday I'm going to probably stop by the dealership since I need an oil-change and new air-filter anyways, and while I'm there I'm going to see if the fix is available yet. I seriously hope it is because my car has gotten MUCH more sluggish since my last post. I'm now at 16,000 miles and I'm beginning to think my clutch is burnt or something. It just doesn't feel the same way anymore. Or maybe I just need that oil-change and air-filter but I doubt those two maintenances would make my car sluggish like that at all. (20% oil life, air-filter I think is recommended for change at 12- 15k miles.) It is definetly drive-train related. I mean, when I really want my car to go fast, I can MAKE it go fast, but I feel as if I have to really press on the accelerator more lately. I don't remember having to try as hard or give as much gas for it to push, and I really don't get that "kick" when i accelerate anymore. But defintely not a full blown clutch just yet. In either case, I've already sort of been promised by the service manager that if my clutch was worn out or entirely "burnt" then he would go ahead and associate it with the faulty 3rd gear issue. Hopefully my clutch and everything is fine, but if they're not then I hope they will indeed fix it without me having to pay for the parts or service. Although of course someone could always say it is the driver's fault and that the driver pay for it - but in this case, since Honda is officially taking responsiblity for the faulty transmission issue - I believe they'll cover any other RELATED issues and treat it as a special case since it is highly probable that those other mechanical problems are related to the gear/shifting issues. So if you're going in to get this fix, remember to ask them to perform a full vehicle inspection in case your clutch and whatever else is screwed up. Has anyone else already went ahead and found out more information or received the gear fix? If so, please explain to the rest of us how it went and how your SI is doing now. I'll update again after I find out more information about the fix - whether it's available or not yet, etc. If anyone has questions or comments you are welcome to email me: vinc@umd.edu Vincent T. (Maryland) '07 Civic Si Nighthawk Pearl w/ Nav

This ad is not displayed to registered or logged-in members. Register your free account today and become a member on Honda-Tech!

[Vinc84]

If you're looking for a quick answer without reading my long post, I'll sum it up.

Honda has announced a transmission fix for the 06 - 07 Civic SI (and any other Honda 6-speed that qualifies for the fix). The announcement is on their official service bulletin for any dealership to draw up to see for themselves. If the service manager still fails to figure out that this is a Honda recognized issue and that there is a fix for it, kindly ask him to contact someone at Honda Motor Corp about it for you and they SHOULD be able to inform him about the fix through the phone.

Again, the fix involves basically overhauling your existing transmission and changing a few of its mechanics around. THIS IS BASICALLY A NEWLY LAID OUT GEAR BOX. You will probably want this even if you don't experience 3rd gear issues because this is what Honda is putting out there as a fix and as a new transmission lay out. I suggest that if you have an 06 and 07 SI, that you bring your car in and see if the fix is necessary for you or not. Personally, I'd get it done just to stay up to date with the parts. Unless of course you have an aftermarket tranny or something.

Good luck.

[Michael Bolton]

Where's the announcement? Do you have smething offical or is this just something that the tech said?

[Vinc84]

Unfortunately it's not that easy to view the official Honda service bulletin. You can view service bulletins through certain websites that charge you around $20 - 30 for a detailed print out of a particular service bulletin...but I'm not going to do that when I've already been told about it personally by my dealership. Basically, I'm just sharing what I've learned about the issue from my own findings at the dealership. I've done as much as anyone can about the problem. My local Honda service manager drew up a Honda service bulletin that addresses the 3rd gear problem officially. He told me that there is a fix that is due in 2008 as early as the month of January. I was then told I he will try to contact me about it when the fix is available. I have been going to this dealership for maintenance on my old 97 Accord Coupe LX SE, 98 Civic EX, and Honda Oddysey as well as my 07 Civic SI. I am treated very well there so I don't think I was lied to. There is no reason to lie to a customer about a false fix.

Only someone at your Honda dealership can assure you about the fix if you don't take my word for it. I'm merely relaying what I was told by a professional. Again, this is why I suggesting that anyone who is experience this very same problem should also take their SI to the dealership and inquire about the problem and fix.

In either case, I'll update this forum and every other forum I have posted on about how everything goes when I bring my car for regular maintenance tomorrow on Monday. I'll speak to the service manager again to see what's up with the release of the fix. I'll post again then.

[cnyej1]

Ill believe it when i see an actual bulletin. I was on the phone with Honda of America last week for 35 min arguing about my transmission. All they said was to do the tranny flush (which I already have and had to pay out of my own pocket) and if the problem is still there then the car must have been abused.

[Vinc84]

So I got my oil changed and I got that reflash done this morning - my baby drives a lot better - or at least I think it does haha.

The service manager there is so awesome, he gave me the oil change and service for 50% off. He always gives me a discount so it sucks when he's not there when I come in for maintenance b/c I'll get charged regular prices.

<FONT COLOR=""Red"">Well enough about me, here’s what I was told about the 3rd gear fix: </FONT>

Unfortunately he said the parts are still being made but they should be done soon. The reason why it's taking so long is because Honda Motor Corp is trying to manufacture enough of these parts to be able to meet the demanding number of complaints for repairs.

Also, he said Honda does in fact recognize this problem officially – meaning it’s in their books. However, it simply just isn't listed in their service bulletin yet because why would they list it now when the parts aren't even available yet? At least I was informed about it still thankfully.

So, when the parts are finally manufactured and there is a nice surplus of them available, Honda will then at that time list the fix on the service bulletin making the service available.

Furthermore, information about this fix will probably NOT be sent out to people in the mail like past service announcements have been simply because it is not a universal problem that all owners experience. Honda probably finds it more efficient to not alarm a high number of owners who don’t have to worry about this particular repair. Although there are a large number of SI owners who are experiencing this, it is still considered an isolated problem and not an epidemic problem. Therefore it will not be treated as a recall since it does not endanger anyone. If you feel that you have the problem, then it is your responsibility to bring your vehicle to be inspected.

Since this is not yet listed on their service bulletin, in order to get your dealership to acknowledge this fix my service manager suggests that you have your dealership's service manager call the Honda Tech line and ask about a fix concerning the 06-07 Civic SI 3rd problem and someone over the phone will confirm it to them and inform them about it.

After that, it's just a matter of waiting for the parts to be made but at least the service manager at your dealership will know that it's for real. My service manager assured me not to worry because they will know when the parts are available because when they are finally complete every dealership should be receiving an official bulletin posting about it. So get your name on a memo with your dealership so they hit you up when the fix is available.

Finally, most of you are probably worried about not being able to get this fix because the service team at your dealership is still giving you a hard time about replicating the problem. The service manager at my dealership only tried to replicate the problem with me because at that time he had no idea what the problem was or what caused it. He told me that he only tried to replicate the problem to try to identify it. However, now that he knows that Honda officially recognizes that there may be a case where there is a problem with a vehicle's 3rd gear and gear syncros, he no longer needs to try to figure out what could be wrong. So, once the parts for the fix is available, all he’ll have to do is have the service team take a look at my transmission and other related parts, inspect them to see what I need, then order the parts to fix it up.

It should be that easy for all of you. If not then I’m sorry that your dealership doesn’t treat you nearly as good as they should like the way mine treats me. If it comes down to it, you can always tell them that you’re going to give the service manager and his team a <FONT COLOR=""red"">bad rating</FONT> when you get your next service survey call about the services you’ve recently received! Or even threaten to call customer service and tell them directly about the poor manner in which you are being treated. That will make him treat you better, trust me. Sometimes you have to be a jerk too - just don't over do it.

I hope this answers most questions but if anyone has more questions just ask me via private message and I'll get back to you asap.

- Vincent

[2008fijibluesi]

have you heard anything about this problem occuring in '08 si's? i have an '08 si (manufactured Nov '07) and i experience the 3rd gear problem too. i hope this recall or bulletin covers my car or i will be royally pissed off.

[chiggin]

In for updates.

Thanks for all the effort and information Vinc84. I will definitely keep checking this post as well as my dealership. I really hope this fix comes soon because that 3rd gear grind is really annoying.

[Vinc84]

Yes, on other forums like ************* there have been reports of '08 owners who are experiencing notchy shifting and even 3rd gear grinds. If it only happened once to you, it might just be a scary coincidental occurence. However it if's a repeat problem, then look forward to the coming of the fix. I recommend that all new 08 owners change their MTF to Amsoil Syncromesh or a similar MTF of the same type. Ask the dealership if your MTF is already Amsoil Syncromesh, if not, then kindly ask them to change it.

Here is the service bulletin # and information for that MTF service:

Service Bulletin Num : 1205
Date of Bulletin: DEC 16, 2005
NHTSA Item Number: 10018868
POWER TRAIN: MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Summary:
TRANSMISSION GRINDS AT SHIFTS, SKIP SHIFTING.


It should cost you absolutely nothing to get done. It will improve the quality of your shifting and minimize the 3rd gear gring until the official fix is available. The MTF change has been performed on 06 and 07 SIs, so there should be no reason why your 08 can't have it done either. Good luck.

[chiggin]

Originally Posted by Vinc84

Here is the service bulletin # and information for that MTF service:

Service Bulletin Num : 1205
Date of Bulletin: DEC 16, 2005
NHTSA Item Number: 10018868
POWER TRAIN: MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Summary:
TRANSMISSION GRINDS AT SHIFTS, SKIP SHIFTING.

Vinc84, are you sure about that service bulletin number? I just talked to the local dealership and was told that that was not a Honda service bulletin number. The service department guy I talked to said that the numbers were formatted differently. Is there somewhere I can look this service bulletin up?

Are there any Si owners in the Greenville, SC area that are experiencing the 3rd gear issues and have looked into getting it fixed? If so, were you successful? I have called Breakaway Honda and asked about it before, and I am always told by the service department person I talk to that they have not heard of the 3rd gear/transmission issue. Granted, I did not push the issue that hard when I called simply because I have always been at work when I call. If someone else in the Greenville, SC area has successfully had this issue taken care of, it would be nice to know.

[Hellzcivic]

Vic, can you provide the copy of the service bulletin or maybe the service bulletin number? That would be really helpful when I raise with issue with my service manager.

Thanks

[cnyej1]

Originally Posted by Hellzcivic

Vic, can you provide the copy of the service bulletin or maybe the service bulletin number? That would be really helpful when I raise with issue with my service manager.

Thanks

There isnt one. There might be one later on, but as of right now there isnt one.

[Vinc84]

Go here, it is on page 3/6:

http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanis...0.PDF

I recommend you save this PDF on your computer in case you can't access it again...WE are not suppose to have access to this. If your dealership is wondering how you got this, just say it's all over the internet because of other people experiencing the same issue.

Just know that changing your MTF won't fix the 3rd gear issue - but it IS the new MTF we need anyways.

[cnyej1]

I believe he isnt talking about the MTF change bulletin since most everyone has done this already. He is talking about the tranny overhaul.

[Mechanic]

Originally Posted by cnyej1

There isnt one. There might be one later on, but as of right now there isnt one.

Correct. If the OP's vision of a service bulletin comes to pass -- a vision based, so far, solely on one service writer's opinion -- repairs will be done consistent Honda corporate policy: i.e., on a one-by-one, case-by-case basis with prior approval at a regional level.

[IT GUY]

Originally Posted by Mechanic

Correct. If the OP's vision of a service bulletin comes to pass -- a vision based, so far, solely on one service writer's opinion -- repairs will be done consistent Honda corporate policy: i.e., on a one-by-one, case-by-case basis with prior approval at a regional level.

QFT.

[Maconperformance]

Went to the dealership today and they also said they could not replicate the problem. I told them that I needed to probably get the amsoil put in and they acted like i didnt know what I was talking about. They said they have had other people in complaining about it though.

[hraracer]

The service news simply says to change to new Honda MTF. I have never heard Honda recommending other MTF besides Honda ones.

[sleoii]

interesting

[Mattgrimes]

yay

[h0ndaSi]

I am a new user to this blog and I am also having issues with my transmission, specifically the third gear issue. I brought my car into the dealership, and fortunately was able to demonstrate the grinding of third gear to the service manager. I asked them about a fix and they said they were one, not aware of any issues that Si's are having, and two, not aware of any fix that Honda is currently working on.

They serviced the car and replaced the syncros for the third gear (which is also for the fourth gear if I am not mistaken). I picked up the car yesterday and I am still having issues. It is slightly smoother, but still not considered smooth by any means. I brought the car back in today (for other issues I am having that essentially just requires an adjustment) and explained that I am still having issues with the transmission. (On a different note, I spoke to another dealership that confirms the fix and they said that the fix will not be available until Spring. Originally, it was supposed to be January, but the outlook is Spring now.)

I mentioned that Honda is developing/manufacturing a fix for this problem. I told him that the Honda-Tech line confirms this statement. When I told him this, he said that he called Honda-Tech line in the first place to troubleshoot the problem and that they sent him a new set of syncros, ones that were a different/newer style then previously in the car.

So sorry about the long entry, but I was curious if anyone else had their syncros replaced by their dealership and are no longer experiencing this issue. And, I am also concerned about any damage that might result from this transmission problem as a result of having to wait until Spring for a fix. If anyone else has any information that would be helpful, any response would be appreciated.


Modified by h0ndaSi at 8:37 AM 1/18/2008

[chiggin]

any word on the 3rd gear fix?

[jenh]

Vincent, thank you so much for all the information you've provided here. It's very helpful.

Yesterday my husband and I had our second extremely frustrating call with customer support -- a woman named Caroline, to be specific -- at Honda America; she continued to claim total ignorance of this issue and said we are the only ones who have ever called to report this problem! I suspect that Honda's legal department has given instructions not to admit to a problem (hmm, maybe we should have said our Civic is experiencing a "product characteristic"?) ... but that did get me to wondering what kinds of responses others of you have gotten, not from dealers, but from corporate customer support. I find it very hard to believe that my husband and I are the only ones to have called them, so I'm curious to know what Honda has admitted to to other callers.

We live in Germany and bought our American-spec car through a military car sales program, so although we've been assigned a local dealer for maintenance or any needed work, the German dealers won't automatically receive any tech bulletins on American-spec cars. The reason we've been calling customer support is to find out what steps we need to take to get information on this issue to the German dealer -- but since the problem doesn't exist in Caroline's world, there is nothing for us to do. If anyone has any ideas for how we might proceed, we'd really appreciate them.

Thanks!
Jennifer

[Ding]

I think it's funny how this guy is getting replies from people with a handful of posts pretty much supporting his post. I just find that weird/odd. I don't believe there is a fix in the works at all. I have checked all the computers at Honda (I work for them), and I have even seen many people come in with this problem and get turned around. I will not be holding my breath for this fix.

[RICO_]

Originally Posted by Ding

I think it's funny how this guy is getting replies from people with a handful of posts pretty much supporting his post. I just find that weird/odd. I don't believe there is a fix in the works at all. I have checked all the computers at Honda (I work for them), and I have even seen many people come in with this problem and get turned around. I will not be holding my breath for this fix.

Well one thing alot of people are saying is that simply changing the MTF to a newer one that Honda has will help greatly with the issue. So i'm gonna try that first. Not like it's a big deal anyway to me....i've learned to get used to it....and for me it's really not as bad as many people make it out to be. Only in cold weather.....but once the car warms up it's fine for the most part.