A_Rotary_Guy

I didn't get a chance to call the Honda dealership today, so hopefully I can get ahold of them tomorrow. I'd like to know about their take on removing the solenoids, sensors, and magnets and cleaning them and what they charge for a flush. Hopefully I can get ahold of a couple other dealerships and ask them also.

I'll be mounting my cooler in a similar fashion down in the corner of the radiator. Where did you guys mount your remote filters at?

A_Rotary_Guy

Well, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to remove and clean the sensors, magnets, or solenoids because at this time the tranny isn't throwing any codes, so that means the sensors and solenoids should be working correctly. Also, I'm pretty sure after doing the flush that if there is anything in the solenoid screens that it'll get cleaned out. Better to leave then alone than to possibly break them.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go ahead and do the flush with Honda ATF along with adding the tranny cooler and remote mount filter that I listed above. I plan on putting the tranny cooler in one of the lower corners of the radiator and then probably mounting the filter on the inner fender well. Does anyone have pictures of a remote mount filter and tranny cooler setup?

Mystral Hawk

Yeah man. I think I linked it before but maybe you overlooked it.

http://www.v6performance.net/f...age=7
that thread is full of information, just that this page has the most pictures that would help you.

Filter
http://www.v6performance.net/f...79220

Hope this helps.

The_Honda_Guy

Bringing this back from the dead, but I've got a couple questions.

For the people who have done drain and fills - are you using any sort of tranny cleaners during this process or just the Honda ATF? I know that you don't want to use any additives with the Honda ATF to maintain the correct additives and viscosity.

This is the filter and cooler setups I'll be running:

http://store.summitracing.com/...w=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/...w=sku

From what I've found while searching these two are the popular items to go with.

Any other suggestions for tranny maintainence/upgrades besides the cooler, filter, and fluid change?

sony224422

did you make a new screename?

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Just use ATF, you can use a cheaper one rather than Honda ATF.

For example just cycle through crappy $1/bottle for the first two rinses then on the final use Honda ATF.

The_Honda_Guy

Yea, I made a new name. The old one didn't exactly fit anymore.

I know that some Honda dealerships do flushes. The one that's in my area does. IIRC Honda doesn't recommend flushing the tranny, but actually draining, filling, driving, and repeating that process a few times to change the fluid. I'm still not sure why a flush is so bad, I perform many of them at work and haven't seen any problems yet.

The tranny filter on the automatic Honda transmissions aren't serviceable and are an internal filter. That's basically the reason for adding the aftermarket filter setup. To change the stock filter you need to disassemble the transmission.

The_Honda_Guy

Sorry to bring this back up guys, but now that I've got a chance to work on the car after work at the dealership I work at and have access to a 16 quart transmission machine, I'm debating doing a flush exchange on the car. But here's a few things I'm thinking about.

Obviously the machine isn't going to exchange all the fluid completely, but will get most of it. There is still some fluid left in the different hydraulic circuits for the different gears. What I was thinking of doing is first doing the drain and fill, then drive, then drain and fill again a few times to get most of the old **** out. I wasn't planning on running any sort of cleaner through the trans during this time because I didn't want to have to worry about any of the cleaner staying in any of the hydraulic circuits and causing problems. I also plan on dropping the pan and cleaning it out and replacing the gasket at this time and inspecting for other leaks.

After I did the drain and fill 3 times I figured that would have most of the old **** out of there. After doing that I was then going to put the cleaner and let the vehicle run in park for a bit, then do the fluid exchange with the machine. I know for sure that the cleaner would all come out then because the new fluid would be pushing all the old **** out. And no, I won't be adding any sort of modifiers to the new fluid, just regular Honda ATF. If I did the fluid exchange first all the old stuff in the hydraulic circuits would just contaminate all the new fluid, so that's my reasoning for doing it in that order.

Also, one other thing. I did a little thinking and had a few questions. First of all, apparently the filters in our cars aren't the kind of filter you're thinking of. Their filtering capacity is only like 60-100 microns IIRC. A typical oil filter is like 20-25 microns. More or less the filter in our trannies are a screen instead of a filter, but obviously they act as a filter. Apparently the reasoning behind them being not like an oil filter is because the transmission fluid needs to flow easily when it's cold, otherwise the vehicle will not shift correctly. Obviously this would make me second guess putting an external filter on the vehicle, because I don't want to cause it to be too much of a restriction.

I believe these are pretty valid points on this topic that should be discussed. What are your guy's opinions?

taeng

I would use honda ATF

The_Honda_Guy

I was told that Honda makes an external filter setup that they install after installing replacing a transmission. I tried doing a search around for it and haven't seen anything yet that Honda makes. The only things I can find are the aftermarket kits that the aftermarket companies make. Could anyone give me a link or a part number or something?

I'll probably just end up doing my transmission service how I listed above, that way I know at least that all the old **** will be out of there. Like I said, the only thing I'm concerned about is putting on the aftermarket filter setup. I don't want it to be too much of a restriction when the fluid is cold and not allow it to flow properly and cause transmission damage. Information comes from here -

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/bf100456.htm

"Many Asian transmissions don't even have a filter. They just use a screen to keep debris from being sucked into the transmission. Even regular ATF filters are relatively coarse compared to an engine oil filter. A typical ATF filter may have a rating of 60 to 125 microns or higher -- compared to 20 to 25 microns for an oil filter. The reason why is so the filter will pass enough fluid when the ATF is cold. Yet it only takes a particle the size of a human hair (about 30 microns) to jam a transmission valve!"

Thoughts?

hilltopgraphics

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The_Honda_Guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was told that Honda makes an external filter setup that they install after installing replacing a transmission. I tried doing a search around for it and haven't seen anything yet that Honda makes. The only things I can find are the aftermarket kits that the aftermarket companies make. Could anyone give me a link or a part number or something?

I'll probably just end up doing my transmission service how I listed above, that way I know at least that all the old **** will be out of there. Like I said, the only thing I'm concerned about is putting on the aftermarket filter setup. I don't want it to be too much of a restriction when the fluid is cold and not allow it to flow properly and cause transmission damage. Information comes from here -

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/bf100456.htm

"Many Asian transmissions don't even have a filter. They just use a screen to keep debris from being sucked into the transmission. Even regular ATF filters are relatively coarse compared to an engine oil filter. A typical ATF filter may have a rating of 60 to 125 microns or higher -- compared to 20 to 25 microns for an oil filter. The reason why is so the filter will pass enough fluid when the ATF is cold. Yet it only takes a particle the size of a human hair (about 30 microns) to jam a transmission valve!"

Thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Filter micron ratings can be tricky. To set the record straight, Honda / Acura transmissions use a 80-90 micron "NOMINAL" filtering media. This is much different than the alternative "ABSOLUTE" media. 80 microns NOMINAL means a particle measuring 80x80 will not pass through... however if it's 80x40 it can. That's because nominal filtering uses a layered fiber weave, and small particles can make their way through sometimes.

80 microns ABSOLUTE filters have precision layers with holes no larger than 80x80 microns, so even an 80x10 particle can't get through.

Now having said all that, the reason Honda does not use ABSOLUTE filtering is because they run the risk of actually straining the detergents from the ATF itself (at 58 microns max.). This obviously would cause problems.

It's actually an engineering designed "step-down" process of filtering since the valve-to-valve bore is a tight 15-28 micron clearance spec. So even if a particle smaller than 80 microns gets through the strainer, the risk of it hanging up a valve is minimal.

I think you need to double-check with your dealer who told you Honda has an external filtration kit. I have never heard of it... and I should know.

The_Honda_Guy

Alright, so from what I understand then, the traditional oil filters used on our vehicles are considered absolute media. It makes sense then why Honda doesn't run absolute filtering because straining the detergents from the ATF would be bad and would damage the transmission.

I'm guessing then that running an external filter setup with an absolute filtering media would be a bad idea based on the information that you stated. Looks like I'll be passing on doing that then.

Now, what about running an aftermarket transmission fluid cooler? Is that going to have any negative effects? Obviously keep the fluid cooler is going to make it last longer and not break down as fast. The problem is you've got to think if it's going to cause line pressure problems. I was going to install it along with the stock cooler in the radiator. What are your thoughts on that?

hilltopgraphics

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The_Honda_Guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alright, so from what I understand then, the traditional oil filters used on our vehicles are considered absolute media. It makes sense then why Honda doesn't run absolute filtering because straining the detergents from the ATF would be bad and would damage the transmission.

I'm guessing then that running an external filter setup with an absolute filtering media would be a bad idea based on the information that you stated. Looks like I'll be passing on doing that then.

Now, what about running an aftermarket transmission fluid cooler? Is that going to have any negative effects? Obviously keep the fluid cooler is going to make it last longer and not break down as fast. The problem is you've got to think if it's going to cause line pressure problems. I was going to install it along with the stock cooler in the radiator. What are your thoughts on that?</TD></TR></TABLE>

From my side of the business I can't say that added ATF cooling features will either benefit or harm the trans. What I can tell you is that the system was intentionally designed without the added cooling. Honda ATF is specifically formulated to operate optimally within a certain temperature range, but obviously the operating temp. varies from state-to-state and driver-to-driver. Until about 2003, Honda's designers were still basing their specs off driving in Asian traffic - which is ultimately why there were inherent clutch failures and C2/S2 gear burn issues in the U.S. and Canadian market.

So back to your question... will the added trans cooler harm the trans? I can't say that it will either benefit or be detrimental. If you live in a hot state or travel a lot of inclines, I can't see where it would hurt.

The_Honda_Guy

Yes, that all makes sense too. Obviously the ATF needs to stay within that operating temperature or it can't do it's job correctly.

Well, here's the thing. I live in Iowa. We see temperatures from -20 F to 100 F. Obviously the trans cooler isn't going to help me during Fall and Winter months since it gets a lot colder, but during the Spring and Summer it would be nice. At this time I don't plan on driving the car through winter again, so in that case the trans cooler would be a good idea. Also, I drive a few hills on the way to and from work and I generally live in a hilly area.

Do you think it would be best to put the aftermarket cooler in line with the stock cooler?

YeuEmMaiMai

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The_Honda_Guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry to bring this back up guys, but now that I've got a chance to work on the car after work at the dealership I work at and have access to a 16 quart transmission machine, I'm debating doing a flush exchange on the car. But here's a few things I'm thinking about.

Obviously the machine isn't going to exchange all the fluid completely, but will get most of it. There is still some fluid left in the different hydraulic circuits for the different gears. What I was thinking of doing is first doing the drain and fill, then drive, then drain and fill again a few times to get most of the old **** out. I wasn't planning on running any sort of cleaner through the trans during this time because I didn't want to have to worry about any of the cleaner staying in any of the hydraulic circuits and causing problems. I also plan on dropping the pan and cleaning it out and replacing the gasket at this time and inspecting for other leaks.

After I did the drain and fill 3 times I figured that would have most of the old **** out of there. After doing that I was then going to put the cleaner and let the vehicle run in park for a bit, then do the fluid exchange with the machine. I know for sure that the cleaner would all come out then because the new fluid would be pushing all the old **** out. And no, I won't be adding any sort of modifiers to the new fluid, just regular Honda ATF. If I did the fluid exchange first all the old stuff in the hydraulic circuits would just contaminate all the new fluid, so that's my reasoning for doing it in that order.

Also, one other thing. I did a little thinking and had a few questions. First of all, apparently the filters in our cars aren't the kind of filter you're thinking of. Their filtering capacity is only like 60-100 microns IIRC. A typical oil filter is like 20-25 microns. More or less the filter in our trannies are a screen instead of a filter, but obviously they act as a filter. Apparently the reasoning behind them being not like an oil filter is because the transmission fluid needs to flow easily when it's cold, otherwise the vehicle will not shift correctly. Obviously this would make me second guess putting an external filter on the vehicle, because I don't want to cause it to be too much of a restriction.

I believe these are pretty valid points on this topic that should be discussed. What are your guy's opinions?</TD></TR></TABLE>

as long as you use a machine that rely's on the transmission's internal pump to do the fluid change you should be OK. I would only use honda atf.

BTW all of honda's automatic transmission failures from 98+ are directly related to design and quality control issues, not the fluid (if the unit has been properly maintained)

YeuEmMaiMai

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hilltopgraphics &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think you need to double-check with your dealer who told you Honda has an external filtration kit. I have never heard of it... and I should know. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe that he is referring to the honda reman units for the 98-02 accords

The_Honda_Guy

Yea, I will only be using the machine with the bladder in it that uses the pump pressure of the transmission to push the old fluid out and then push the new fluid in. The only way you can mess up using a machine like that is if you don't check the transmission level after your done and run the car with it low on fluid. And yes, I will only be using Honda ATF, no other additives.

Yea, I knew about the 98-02 transmissions having problems. The external filter kit I believe was only with the Honda reman transmissions from 98-02 like you said.

The_Honda_Guy

Well, I guess to get this all added up...

To start I plan on purchasing the Skunk 2 magnetic drain plugs for the engine and transmission. These will help trap any metal shavings that are in the engine oil or tranny fluid. Here's a picture:

http://tasauto.com/Product/images/710030.jpg

Obviously the machine isn't going to exchange all the fluid completely, but will get most of it. There is still some fluid left in the different hydraulic circuits for the different gears. What I am going to do is first drain and fill, then drive, then drain and fill again 3 times to get most of the old **** out. I wasn't planning on running any sort of cleaner through the trans during this time because I didn't want to have to worry about any of the cleaner staying in any of the hydraulic circuits and causing problems. Between the drain and fills I plan on cleaning the drain plug of any metal shavings and debris to keep it from circulating with the ATF.

After I did the drain and fill 3 times I figured that would have most of the old **** out of there. After doing that I was then going to put the cleaner and let the vehicle run in park for a bit, then do the fluid exchange with the machine. I know for sure that the cleaner would all come out then because the new fluid would be pushing all the old **** out. And no, I won't be adding any sort of modifiers to the new fluid, just regular Honda ATF. If I did the fluid exchange first all the old stuff in the hydraulic circuits would just contaminate all the new fluid, so that's my reasoning for doing it in that order.

After cleaning everything out I plan on then installing a B&M transmission fluid cooler. My reasoning for this is because I want to extend the life of the fluid. I drive in mostly hilly terrain and warmer weather, so the trans cooler should help out some. Here's the kit I plan on using:

http://store.summitracing.com/...w=sku

So, I should say that would sum everything up for my transmission.

hilltopgraphics

Well here's the good news... if after driving your car another 20-30K you don't experience trans problems, you can always say it was because you added the $60 cooler. Good luck.

The_Honda_Guy

It looks like that only the re-man units were able to come with the external filters. Here is a link to them:

http://www.accordinglydone.com...83363

sony224422

hey man.. no offense but i think your looking WAY too much into all this for a daily driver.

yes a nice fluid drain and refil x3 is perfectly normal for maintiance, at whatever interval you feel comfortable with *10k to 45k*, and even SOME dealers do a flush, so thats fine too.

But as far as an external filter and cooler. they aren't really needed at all unless your driving in some extereme conditions. Such as, really dirty, dusty roads alll the time where your fluid is getting tainted fast.

and a cooler, you shouldn't need because theres the stock on in the radiator, unless your again, in extremes, such as towing with the car, or in some wicked hot temps in stop and go traffic.

While its not going to hurt to add the cooler, theres no such thing as having fluid too cold, you just have to allow the car enough time to warm up in the winter with that set up. I just wouldn't even look into the external filter, too much of a hassle.

The_Honda_Guy

I've decided that I'm going to run the external filter setup from Honda. From what I can tell it basically just goes in line with the rubber return hose coming from the radiator to the transmission. Seems like all you need to do is cut the line, install the filter, and secure it with some hose clamps and probably a custom made bracket.

What I'll probably end up doing is getting two filters. I'll start with installing one, performing my drain and refills and tranny flush, then removing that one and installing a new one. That way I know all the **** has been trapped and removed from the old fluid and that I've got a fresh filter and fluid in the trans.

The_Honda_Guy

Alright, final post so that I've got everything together.

I plan on purchasing the Skunk 2 magnetic drain plugs for the engine and transmission. These will help trap any metal shavings that are in the engine oil or tranny fluid. Here's a picture:

http://tasauto.com/Product/images/710030.jpg

Also, I plan on running Honda's external transmission filter that they install on the re-man units. This will also help pick up contaminants in the fluid. Here's a link to the pictures and part numbers:

http://www.accordinglydone.com...83363

After getting those I then plan to install the drain plugs just like you normally would. For the external filter I plan to cut a piece out of the rubber return hose going from the stock cooler back to the transmission and installing it there with a couple of hose clamps and possibly some sort of bracket to support it.

Obviously a tranny fluid machine isn't going to exchange all the fluid completely, but will get most of it. There is still some fluid left in the different hydraulic circuits for the different gears. What I am going to do is first drain and fill with Honda ATF, then drive, then drain and fill again 3 times to get most of the old **** out. I wasn't planning on running any sort of cleaner through the trans during this time because I didn't want to have to worry about any of the cleaner staying in any of the hydraulic circuits and causing problems. Between the drain and fills I plan on cleaning the drain plug of any metal shavings and debris to keep it from circulating with the ATF.

After I did the drain and fill 3 times I figured that would have most of the old **** out of there. After doing that I was then going to put the cleaner and let the vehicle run in park for a bit, then do the fluid exchange with the machine. I know for sure that the cleaner would all come out then because the new fluid would be pushing all the old **** out. And no, I won't be adding any sort of modifiers to the new fluid, just regular Honda ATF. If I did the fluid exchange first all the old stuff in the hydraulic circuits would just contaminate all the new fluid, so that's my reasoning for doing it in that order.

After cleaning everything out I plan on then installing a B&M transmission fluid cooler and replacing the external filter with a fresh new one. My reasoning for this is because I want to extend the life of the fluid. I drive in mostly hilly terrain and warmer weather, so the trans cooler should help out some. Here's the kit I plan on using:

http://store.summitracing.com/...w=sku

I plan on using it in series with the stock cooler built into the radiator. My plan is to place it in front of the radiator in the corner and hook it up after the stock cooler. So basically it will go:

Transmission -&gt; Stock cooler -&gt; Aftermarket cooler -&gt; External filter -&gt; Transmission

So, I should say that would sum everything up for my transmission. Any other opinions or suggestions besides just going and doing it?

The_Honda_Guy

I'm getting ready to order all of my stuff here shortly, but I've got a couple last questions. I was thinking of possibly trying to degrease and paint the transmission and was wondering what type of paint you guys would use. I'm guessing something like a Duplicolor high temp would be my best bet. Other than cleaning it and painting it I can't think of anything else to do besides what I listed above.

The_Honda_Guy

I decided not to paint the transmission for a few reasons. For one it's going to make it retain heat. Also, over time it's going to eventually chip off and look like crap. So now I'm wondering if there's a way I could clean the tranny up and make it looking nice again. I was thinking of seeing if I could find a brush of some sort that I could put on a drill and clean it up. I was thinking of trying an aluminum sanding disc on my pnuematic die grinder but that won't allow me to get into the tighter places on the trans. Any ideas?