H2D VS H2B
12-02-2007, 01:10 PM
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H2D VS H2B
What do you prefer? advantages? which would benefit more? shorter tranny gearing? how much of a difference would a d-series tranny compared to the h make on a n/a set up?
12-02-2007, 02:21 PM
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Re: (pythoner)
H2b all the way just try and get your hands on a lsd box gsr being longest ratios and itr98 spec and ek9 being shortest. Correct me if im wrong 
12-02-2007, 06:59 PM
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Re: (coreyhayman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by coreyhayman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so whats wrong with a h2d set up? iv seen the bit of extra work that needs to be done. Some of the d trannys have gotta be alot shorter then the h.</TD></TR></TABLE>
idk why you would want to go with a h2d when h2b is going to be much better.
idk why you would want to go with a h2d when h2b is going to be much better.
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12-02-2007, 07:43 PM
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really, odd, if i was to get a h2d set up, should like i get a dx tranny or something????????? lol, dx got some long gear ratios 2.. anyways. some one let me know on how the h2d works, really intrested bout it
12-02-2007, 07:45 PM
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Re: (vdawg559)
B-series has more aftermarket support.
The h2b advantage is only that it's cheaper in prices of clutches, and the tranmissions themselves.
The h2b advantage is only that it's cheaper in prices of clutches, and the tranmissions themselves.
12-02-2007, 07:45 PM
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Re: (vdawg559)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vdawg559 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">really, odd, if i was to get a h2d set up, should like i get a dx tranny or something????????? lol, dx got some long gear ratios 2.. anyways. some one let me know on how the h2d works, really intrested bout it</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm confused on why someone would choose to do this over H2b...doesn't make sense to me.
I'm confused on why someone would choose to do this over H2b...doesn't make sense to me.
12-02-2007, 07:50 PM
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Re: (devney)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by devney »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm confused on why someone would choose to do this over H2b...doesn't make sense to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because my d-series transmission is better than a b-series transmission.
If you have to ask why, this H2D/F2D swap is not for you.
Because my d-series transmission is better than a b-series transmission.
If you have to ask why, this H2D/F2D swap is not for you.
12-02-2007, 08:02 PM
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Re: (Bense)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bense »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Because my d-series transmission is better than a b-series transmission.
If you have to ask why, this H2D/F2D swap is not for you.</TD></TR></TABLE>
your certainly right, this h2d and f2d stuff is not for me, but i must ask why just for the sake of knowing
Because my d-series transmission is better than a b-series transmission.
If you have to ask why, this H2D/F2D swap is not for you.</TD></TR></TABLE>
your certainly right, this h2d and f2d stuff is not for me, but i must ask why just for the sake of knowing
12-02-2007, 08:06 PM
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Re: (blinx9900)
Because he's got custom gears, lsd, and a custom Final drive. He spent more on his LSD alone than you would for a good condition b16 tranny.
12-02-2007, 08:46 PM
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Re: (ek forever guy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Because he's got custom gears, lsd, and a custom Final drive. He spent more on his LSD alone than you would for a good condition b16 tranny.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well yeah its bense were talking about, i was sure he had done some trick ish to his D trans, just wondering if there was some reason he chose to use a D trans over a B, like if he did all that trick stuff to a B trans would it be the same? better? worse? ya know what i mean?
well yeah its bense were talking about, i was sure he had done some trick ish to his D trans, just wondering if there was some reason he chose to use a D trans over a B, like if he did all that trick stuff to a B trans would it be the same? better? worse? ya know what i mean?
12-02-2007, 09:07 PM
#15
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Re: (blinx9900)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your certainly right, this h2d and f2d stuff is not for me, but i must ask why just for the sake of knowing </TD></TR></TABLE>
Okay here's the deal. A true and accurate comparison.
H2B
The B-series transmission is pretty good in stock form. The ITR has short gears and a factory LSD. Most people think that they're much stronger than the D-series trans. But the d-series trans are weak because of the stock differential. (most people upgrade these anyways)
Most people that want a fast /modded car are afraid of building the transmission. *Most* people want something that's easy to put together. They'll spend a little bit more, but they'll put in less time and energy.
The H2B IS an easier swap labor wise, there's much more support for it. Using a B16/ITR/GSR trans is easy because they are relatively good in stock form.
####################################
H2D isn't a *BETTER* swap. The stock D trans has crappy gearing. However. D-series parts are less desirable (cheaper in price) and some like to take advantage of this. I've rebuilt my trans and made it better than a B trans.
I made sure that my transmission will be adequate for my power goals, and it is. I am not trying to make 500whp or some stupid crap. My goals are 230 at the wheels with an all motor setup.
I also desired gearing that was better than any oem b-series trans. I see no point in paying more for a b-series trans when all I'm going to do is replace everything. Why pay for good gearing when you're going to upgrade it to better gearing? Spare parts for my transmission are also abundant, I have a lifetime warranty on my axles, I use my stock shift linkage, stock mounts (well, they have polyurethane fill in them).
Chassis modification is there with H2D and you have to grind the back of the engine block more so than you do with H2B. People debate this so much and they write off the swap for this sole reason.
Both swaps require you to grind the back of the block. Yes the H2D requires more material to be ground off, but either way you're using the same tools. An angle grinder is like $30 at walmart, they're easy to use, they're fun to use.
Another reason I went with H2D was that I already built my d-series transmission.
Here is a graph comparing my gearing to a K20R 6speed. My 1st gear was put in twice because I wanted to show how similar the gearing is. If I were to race a K20R civic, I would be shifting at the same mph. Granted I'd be at the end of 4th when the k20r is at the end of 5th, etc.
http://www.fatboyraceworks.com...are=1
H2D is not for everyone, for some people it works.
d16Z6 trans can be found for $150
obx lsd is like $360 shipped
mfactory gears are like $600
I got my gear-x 1st gear for free (it was my idea)
I used fresh synchros/forks/sleeves from a vx trans that I got for free, low mileage, super long gears so nobody wants the trans.
A similar trans can be built for ~$1100 without the gear-x 1st gear or $1350 with the 1st gear.
H2D adapter plate is cheaper than H2B also.
I cannot emphasize enough that the swap isn't for everybody. But for some the combination is exactly what they want.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Okay here's the deal. A true and accurate comparison.
H2B
The B-series transmission is pretty good in stock form. The ITR has short gears and a factory LSD. Most people think that they're much stronger than the D-series trans. But the d-series trans are weak because of the stock differential. (most people upgrade these anyways)
Most people that want a fast /modded car are afraid of building the transmission. *Most* people want something that's easy to put together. They'll spend a little bit more, but they'll put in less time and energy.
The H2B IS an easier swap labor wise, there's much more support for it. Using a B16/ITR/GSR trans is easy because they are relatively good in stock form.
####################################
H2D isn't a *BETTER* swap. The stock D trans has crappy gearing. However. D-series parts are less desirable (cheaper in price) and some like to take advantage of this. I've rebuilt my trans and made it better than a B trans.
I made sure that my transmission will be adequate for my power goals, and it is. I am not trying to make 500whp or some stupid crap. My goals are 230 at the wheels with an all motor setup.
I also desired gearing that was better than any oem b-series trans. I see no point in paying more for a b-series trans when all I'm going to do is replace everything. Why pay for good gearing when you're going to upgrade it to better gearing? Spare parts for my transmission are also abundant, I have a lifetime warranty on my axles, I use my stock shift linkage, stock mounts (well, they have polyurethane fill in them).
Chassis modification is there with H2D and you have to grind the back of the engine block more so than you do with H2B. People debate this so much and they write off the swap for this sole reason.
Both swaps require you to grind the back of the block. Yes the H2D requires more material to be ground off, but either way you're using the same tools. An angle grinder is like $30 at walmart, they're easy to use, they're fun to use.
Another reason I went with H2D was that I already built my d-series transmission.
Here is a graph comparing my gearing to a K20R 6speed. My 1st gear was put in twice because I wanted to show how similar the gearing is. If I were to race a K20R civic, I would be shifting at the same mph. Granted I'd be at the end of 4th when the k20r is at the end of 5th, etc.
http://www.fatboyraceworks.com...are=1
H2D is not for everyone, for some people it works.
d16Z6 trans can be found for $150
obx lsd is like $360 shipped
mfactory gears are like $600
I got my gear-x 1st gear for free (it was my idea)
I used fresh synchros/forks/sleeves from a vx trans that I got for free, low mileage, super long gears so nobody wants the trans.
A similar trans can be built for ~$1100 without the gear-x 1st gear or $1350 with the 1st gear.
H2D adapter plate is cheaper than H2B also.
I cannot emphasize enough that the swap isn't for everybody. But for some the combination is exactly what they want.
12-02-2007, 09:30 PM
#16
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Re: (ek forever guy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Because he's got custom gears, lsd, and a custom Final drive. He spent more on his LSD alone than you would for a good condition b16 tranny.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I used a y8 trans with mfactory 3/5, and cable si 3rd as 4th.
cable si 3rd is 1.259
hydro ex/si 3rd is 1.250
The difference is so minimal, that nobody would ever notice the difference. I did this because at the time, It was believed that the hydro 3rd gear of 1.250 would need to be modified to be used as 4th gear. It has since been discovered by Mista Bone that hydro 3rd gear as hydro 4th gear requires no modification.
I purchased a quaife lsd because at the time there wasn't as much information about the obx lsd as there is now. If I had to make the decision today, I would chose the obx and save $500
My transmission is being revised however, I am putting in a hx final drive of 3.722 (that I got for free) and a zc 2nd gear that I had left over from someone elses's hybrid trans I assembled. As well as doing testing for this 3.083 gear-x prototype 1st gear.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well yeah its bense were talking about, i was sure he had done some trick ish to his D trans, just wondering if there was some reason he chose to use a D trans over a B, like if he did all that trick stuff to a B trans would it be the same? better? worse? ya know what i mean?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I thought about this a lot. At the time mfactory only offered a 1.0 5th gear with their close ratio b-series gears. I thought that this ratio was too long and it provided too much of a gap from 4th to 5th. However they now offer a 1.130 ratio for 5th gear which would go great with their 1.384 4th gear. So at the time I considered the d-series 2/3/4/5 ratios to be superior to the b-series.
The d-series close ratio gears are also cheaper because they utilized the stock 3rd gear as 4th gear. Again, this boils down to a "why pay for an expensive b-series trans, when all you're going to do is take it apart and not use the premium oem gearing that you paid for?" argument.
However Aside from being cheaper, superior 2/3/4/5 gearing, and utilizing parts i already had. I knew that the gears were super "short" And that if I ever made more power I'd have to use a "taller" final drive.
Stock ex/si final drive is 4.25, but there's the dx/lx 4.058 ratio, the 3.88 cable dx/std ratio (working on a way to get this working in a hydro trans), the hx final drive of 3.722, and even the cx/vx 3.25 final drive.
all of these being parts i already have, parts that i can get for very cheap. AllMotorRandy with his H2B setup was making so much power that he had to switch to a mfactory 4.05 b-series final drive. This retails for $550, I paid $30 for mine (I might even have gotten one for free, not sure)
so the lower cost, the fact that i already had it, the factory 3.25,3.722,3.888,4.058,4.25 final drives, and the better 2/3/4/5 gearing is made me chose the d-series over the b-series.
only thing i didn't like was the 1-2 shift, but that's no longer a problem with the gear-x 1st gear that's about to come out.
Again, this isn't for most people, I don't expect it to be, I'm very interested in this stuff and this is where it's led me to.
1300 for trans
700ish for adapter plate
1300ish for h22
150ish for good clutch/pressure plate
170 for hasport drivers side mount
5 for angle iron that i used a grinder + drill on (drivers side mount)
H2D (stock H22) swap can be done for about ~$3600 with close ratio LSD trans.
I used a y8 trans with mfactory 3/5, and cable si 3rd as 4th.
cable si 3rd is 1.259
hydro ex/si 3rd is 1.250
The difference is so minimal, that nobody would ever notice the difference. I did this because at the time, It was believed that the hydro 3rd gear of 1.250 would need to be modified to be used as 4th gear. It has since been discovered by Mista Bone that hydro 3rd gear as hydro 4th gear requires no modification.
I purchased a quaife lsd because at the time there wasn't as much information about the obx lsd as there is now. If I had to make the decision today, I would chose the obx and save $500
My transmission is being revised however, I am putting in a hx final drive of 3.722 (that I got for free) and a zc 2nd gear that I had left over from someone elses's hybrid trans I assembled. As well as doing testing for this 3.083 gear-x prototype 1st gear.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well yeah its bense were talking about, i was sure he had done some trick ish to his D trans, just wondering if there was some reason he chose to use a D trans over a B, like if he did all that trick stuff to a B trans would it be the same? better? worse? ya know what i mean?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I thought about this a lot. At the time mfactory only offered a 1.0 5th gear with their close ratio b-series gears. I thought that this ratio was too long and it provided too much of a gap from 4th to 5th. However they now offer a 1.130 ratio for 5th gear which would go great with their 1.384 4th gear. So at the time I considered the d-series 2/3/4/5 ratios to be superior to the b-series.
The d-series close ratio gears are also cheaper because they utilized the stock 3rd gear as 4th gear. Again, this boils down to a "why pay for an expensive b-series trans, when all you're going to do is take it apart and not use the premium oem gearing that you paid for?" argument.
However Aside from being cheaper, superior 2/3/4/5 gearing, and utilizing parts i already had. I knew that the gears were super "short" And that if I ever made more power I'd have to use a "taller" final drive.
Stock ex/si final drive is 4.25, but there's the dx/lx 4.058 ratio, the 3.88 cable dx/std ratio (working on a way to get this working in a hydro trans), the hx final drive of 3.722, and even the cx/vx 3.25 final drive.
all of these being parts i already have, parts that i can get for very cheap. AllMotorRandy with his H2B setup was making so much power that he had to switch to a mfactory 4.05 b-series final drive. This retails for $550, I paid $30 for mine (I might even have gotten one for free, not sure)
so the lower cost, the fact that i already had it, the factory 3.25,3.722,3.888,4.058,4.25 final drives, and the better 2/3/4/5 gearing is made me chose the d-series over the b-series.
only thing i didn't like was the 1-2 shift, but that's no longer a problem with the gear-x 1st gear that's about to come out.
Again, this isn't for most people, I don't expect it to be, I'm very interested in this stuff and this is where it's led me to.
1300 for trans
700ish for adapter plate
1300ish for h22
150ish for good clutch/pressure plate
170 for hasport drivers side mount
5 for angle iron that i used a grinder + drill on (drivers side mount)
H2D (stock H22) swap can be done for about ~$3600 with close ratio LSD trans.
12-02-2007, 09:35 PM
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Re: (Bense)
great information bense, its great to see people do things differently whatever the reason may be, but to make something better and cheaper is even better thanks for explaining your reasoning 
it is indeed logical.
thanks for explaining your reasoning it is indeed logical.
12-03-2007, 10:48 AM
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Re: (vdawg559)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vdawg559 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow,amazing. hey u got a pic of the h2d swap?</TD></TR></TABLE>
search under Bense's topics.
search under Bense's topics.
06-05-2008, 09:16 AM
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Re: H2D VS H2B (coreyhayman)
h2b is nice and all if you have a spare b series tranny or if you got a b series swap already...
but if you have a stock d in your car(like me) then(like me) you might seriously want to consider the h2d swap.. lets think about it....
1. you already have the tranny
2. you already have the motor mounts
3. you already have teh axles
4. you know waht condition the tranny is in.
5. beyond common belief d series trannys are one of the strongest
6. h2d is super badace
so... if you want to go the adventurous and all around cheaper route... the h2d is the way to go
but if you have a stock d in your car(like me) then(like me) you might seriously want to consider the h2d swap.. lets think about it....
1. you already have the tranny
2. you already have the motor mounts
3. you already have teh axles
4. you know waht condition the tranny is in.
5. beyond common belief d series trannys are one of the strongest
6. h2d is super badace
so... if you want to go the adventurous and all around cheaper route... the h2d is the way to go
06-05-2008, 05:52 PM
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great info bense my friends about to build a h2b and i have a extra tranny from my dx maybe ill just give to him and he can run with it beings he wants to build the tranny anyways who makes the h2d is it qsd? or evo?
06-08-2008, 11:00 AM
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Re: (ekBlackHatch)
i think its bisi moto? so bense you were happy with those gears you put in for your f2d? and are you gonna build another one, or are you still rollin a d?
07-17-2009, 08:31 PM
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Re: H2D VS H2B
h2d is the **** because you already have everything and i noticed nobody mentioned you already have the starter (expensive) and the shift linkage. you also already have most of the mounts you need.
