RSX for Road Racing, good or bad?

[jwaked]

A friend of mine wants to build an RSX Type S for Road Racing but has heard from lots of people that the suspenssion is a pain in the a.. How true is this? Jay

This ad is not displayed to registered or logged-in members. Register your free account today and become a member on Honda-Tech!

[6ghatch]

Bad, the strut type suspension on the RSX has some geometry issues when you lower them. I'd stick with the double wishbone cars.

[6spdKEG]

realtime racing did some major mods front and rear on their RSX's b/c of the geometry issues.

GT motoring has a time attack RSX that does quite well. Get ahold of them if your buddy wants to get serious about research.. .

http://www.gtmotoring.com/ta-stl-07.htm

[slammed_93_hatch]

its nothing that astronomical spring rates and Moton/jrz wont take care off.

The GAC ST rsx's (very tight rules, have to use OEM bushings and such) did really well. They ran something like 4,000lbs rear springs with a speed way engineering rear bar. But they made it work

[JRDbilt]

I Have done quite a bit of research on suspension setups for RSX's because there is a good chance Ill be building one to compete in the SCCA class called ITR. if you want to know anything I dont think im allowed to PM yet so email me

Johnsonracingdevelopment@yahoo.com

CJ

[GotSpoonJDM]

I do time attack with My rsx, and i dont have any problems with it, i get good rotation with it, i have Buddy Club RSD suspension, and swift rear sway, and EM2 front sway.

[slammed_93_hatch]

Originally Posted by JRDbilt

I Have done quite a bit of research on suspension setups for RSX's because there is a good chance Ill be building one to compete in the SCCA class called ITR. if you want to know anything I dont think im allowed to PM yet so email me

Johnsonracingdevelopment@yahoo.com

CJ

koni has said that they wont be making a strut for it, and besides JRZ and moton there aren't any other really good dampers out there for it. which really limits what you can throw at it.

[George Knighton]

Originally Posted by jwaked

A friend of mine wants to build an RSX Type S for Road Racing but has heard from lots of people that the suspenssion is a pain in the a.. How true is this?

We could pick it to death if we wanted.

The tie rod end is connected to the strut, and the steering rack is too high.

Because the strut is also in a basically completely vertical position under a front lid that swoops fairly low, the strut is also rather short for the load it carries when on the track. There are some combinations of springs and struts that will tend to blow the shock when it takes a hard hit.

If you look at how the front suspension of a 2006 Civic Si differs from that of a 2006 Type S, you'll see how Honda addressed these concerns of enthusiasts. The tie rod's off the strut, the steering rack's almost on the ground, and the strut's reclined rearward to give more travel.

Having said all that, however, there have been a lot of teams who have had remarkable results with the DC5 in road racing, and their experience can now be used to your benefit. Opak Racing is still bringing out its Spoon DC5's all over the place, for example, and they're not doing that badly with lap times when compared to the DC2 and the FG2.

Sure...double wishbone cars are going to always have an ultimate theoretical advantage. But...how many of us are really going to run across these theoretical limitations in our racing lives?

A Spoon EP3 CTR will bounce off a gater that requires an immediate steering input thereafter, and it will hesitate for a discernible 0.25 sec at exactly the same moment that a DC2 ITR is already focused on the road ahead.

It's different but it's not unmanageable, and people win lots of races in DC5 and EP3.

Since the car's already available to you and you already know a lot about it, you're also eliminating a lot of the learning curve.

The best advice this old man can give you is not to try to save money on the suspension. Go straight to Opak Racing or King Motorsports and avail yourself of the experience they already have with racing the DC5.

[GotSpoonJDM]

Opak Racing is my sponsor, for Time attacks. There DC5R is amazing. but the just recieved there new CTR from Type One in Japan.
and also there is alot of Good Dc5`s in Grand Am Koni challenge. Look up Kensai racing.

[George Knighton]

Originally Posted by GotSpoonJDM

... but the[y] just recieved there new CTR from Type One in Japan.

Do you mean they picked up one of the old EP3 CTR, or one of the new four door CTR?

It's gotta be one of those two if it came from Type One. I don't think the JDM crowd are modifying the Swindon 3 door CTR at all, are they?

[GotSpoonJDM]

one of the new 4 doors ! haha its awsome

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...5.jpg

[slammed_93_hatch]

George, you completely left out all the issues with the rear of the car! Some weired toe changes occur and every team i have seen run one, (kensai, Davis, RTR), they all pretty much stop the rear end from having any travel.

[George Knighton]

Originally Posted by slammed_93_hatch

George, you completely left out all the issues with the rear of the car! Some weired toe changes occur and every team i have seen run one, (kensai, Davis, RTR), they all pretty much stop the rear end from having any travel.

You're right, there has to be a way to address this, but it's not a terminal issue IMHO.

Now that you mention it, I remember that if you look under the rear end of a Realtime DC5, you wouldn't even recognise it as an RSX suspension. I think they even changed the pickup points.

Thanks for making me remember that.

[George Knighton]

Originally Posted by GotSpoonJDM

one of the new 4 doors !

Did you do anything in particular to the rear of your DC5 to affix the suspension and prevent dynamic changes?

[PIC Performance]

Now that is a sharp looking Civic. wowowow

[George Knighton]

Originally Posted by PIC Performance

Now that is a sharp looking Civic. wowowow

Well, don't stop there. Tell us how you solve the suspension issues with the DC5 and EP3.

[Johnny Mac]

Originally Posted by George Knighton

Well, don't stop there. Tell us how you solve the suspension issues with the DC5 and EP3.

You would need to relocate suspension pick up points. The best set of dampers in the world won't fix that suspension design.

[descartesfool]

See the WCTC VTS sheet here for the RSX: http://www.world-challenge.com/competitors/vts.php which lists the drawing numbers for the suspension parts that could be changed.

They allowed the suspension mods as requested ny Realtime, and SCCA used to have drawings posted of the vastly modified RSX rear suspension parts developed by Realtime to fix the handling issues.

Additional info here from 2006: http://www.world-challenge.com...2.pdf

"The production rear suspension has inadequate geometry, and making corrections
following regulations 2.9.8.1 and 2.9.8.6 is impossible due to its packaging. Foremost, therear shock motion ratio is too small to provide proper control of rear wheel travel. To solve this problem, an extension of the 25mm movement tolerance is required, and due to the OEM packaging a custom rear H-arm, as well. The custom H-arm would also provide the opportunity to correct the rear bump steer (within the regulation 2.9.8.9), which is not currently possible."

Part approval with drawing here: http://www.world-challenge.com...0.pdf

Seems pretty clear to me that the highest end touring car pro racers in the business here in NA think the rear RSX suspension sucks! And they got the SCCA to agree.

[ITR RACER]

I personally had a tough time with my RSX. I was using Tein N1 dampers and had difficulty with heavy understeer and instability over an sort of bump.

I'd be really interested in seeing a proper drawing of the H-arm. Does anyone know where to get that? I could fabricate it myself...

[JRDbilt]

To the original poster I got your email and am filling it out with all of the specs of how id set that car up. its not just what I personally would do but have spoken with several companies about the particular car as well as talked with people who compete with an RSX such as some of the real time crew and some Grand Am teams.

slammed93hatch, not saying this to be rude or disrespectful but just because you call up koni and talk to some front office or sales person doesnt mean parts dont exist. I have HELD a set of Koni race struts that would work on an RSX

and to the guy saying hes sponsored by Opak. I tried talking to them about getting setup advice for the RSX and they said I should do a grounding kit , some bushings, and some other BS part. I laughed and asked if they were kidding.

[jwaked]

Wao, you really have put lots of time into the RSX suspenssion. Thats very cool. I really appreciate this.

We will be building the RSX in about a month because we want to clear the shop and have everything ready (if such thing really exist) so that we have no down time. I will be posting the progress adn must likely asking more questions.

Once again I really appreciate it. Thanks
Jay

[slammed_93_hatch]

Originally Posted by JRDbilt

slammed93hatch, not saying this to be rude or disrespectful but just because you call up koni and talk to some front office or sales person doesnt mean parts dont exist. I have HELD a set of Koni race struts that would work on an RSX

I didn't talk to any one in the sales office. That is what davis, and kensai were told by the motors ports personal. And Lee has stated it on the other forum too.

To sum it up they were told, "the RSX is a dead chassis that is no longer produced, it doesn't make any sense for us to create a 2812 or the equal for it when no one will be racing the RSX in 200X when the Koni becomes required.

Making some thing work is a lot different then a part being offered off the shelf. And i said good, sure you might be able to revalve some inserts and get them to work, but you are going to need A LOT of shock to control the high spring rates that GA and RTR (still with there modification they run really high rates) team(s) run.

IIRC you run in a class with very little rules, I'd call up RTR and order the parts from them. I doubt they are running one next year and probably have a bit of spares that they are looking to get rid of


Modified by slammed_93_hatch at 1:05 PM 11/23/2007

[Todd00]

Koni has the parts in-house to custom-build a decent suspension for the RSX chassis. They can put a race insert in the front strut and revalve/shorten the rear shocks. Along with the rear struts they can do a different lower bushing since binding (in the rear) will become an issue with a lowered RSX.

You can also put the tie rods below the arm on the front strut to salvage some geometry.

You can get the car to work, as suggested, with some really odd springrates. A typical setup is a 1:2 spring ratio, but if you're serious try a 1:4 (800lb front, 3200 rear, for instance).

An RSX makes a good daily driver, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a roadrace car--no matter how good the K-series is. But if you have one and want to try it, good luck.