Manifold build, I don't get it. Have pics.

[vectorsolid]

Rather than bogart somebody elses thread, I thought I'd pop up a new one, as there seems to be interest in this topic. What is the order a guy welds stuff up when building a manifold. I can't for the life if me figure it out by looking at it. I'm just stumped. Here's a comment I jacked from another thread, and my pics, and some thoughts. Originally Posted by Boostwerks.com I actually do it a little different than most people. I find it easier to tack up one runner first (typically the hardest runner to get too once the manifold fits together), and weld it to the collector/headflange. From there I work my way out in the same way by stacking the runners in order of those hardest to reach. Once the manifold is all welded up, there are certain parts of the manifold that would be impossible to reach if I just tacked them all up at once and welded them. I honestly forgot to post up the pics I had though....lol. I havn't been able to finish the WG tubes yet since I've been focusing on getting my customer's builds completed. I thought about it for a few days. And went out to the shop and piddled with some left over exhaust tubing. Pretty tweaked stuff, but I piddled. I'm still not seeing the order. and I made a "Thingy" where you weld crap together for the sake of welding. But I did cut up and weld a Y section thing, which I've seen on manifold builds. And I came up with the angles based on how I was gonna get the torch in there. This thing was just me playing with some tubing and wondering how the hell you get it made... I'm starting to get a few ideas. But just can't explain the order you get it done in. In this first pic, you can see a core shaped part that is on most manifolds I've seen. Where two tubes merge into one. I think I could successfully build another Y and combine the two into one piece, where 4 tubes become 2 tubes. But to get the tubes onto the top of the Y is where I'm losing focus. I need to order some mandrel bends and tubing donuts and play around some more. Ideas? Pics? Thoughts? Modified by vectorsolid at 4:29 AM 10/28/2007

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[david@didrace.com]

Way OT. I've been to Glasgow Montana twice. You sure do have a pretty nice damn dam.

You weld the collector first. Tack up all of the primary tubes, remove them individually and weld them up and then weld the primaries to the collector.

[RC000E]

Yeah....and lay off the heat....your cooking that steel

[vectorsolid]

Originally Posted by david@didrace.com

Way OT. I've been to Glasgow Montana twice. You sure do have a pretty nice damn dam.

You weld the collector first. Tack up all of the primary tubes, remove them individually and weld them up and then weld the primaries to the collector.

Did you go to the Gateway? Best damn bar by a dam site!

[vectorsolid]

Originally Posted by RC000E

Yeah....and lay off the heat....your cooking that steel

It's thin, heat moves quick. Even a tack will discolor that stuff about an inch in diameter. I believe I was running at about 48 amps on that.

Just junk steel. I hit it with the wire brush, looks like a million bucks.

[EdsGTI]

Is that .065 tubing for a dump? 48 amps is too much, when i weld stuff that thin im set around 22amps.

[RC000E]

A hot weld is a hot weld man...I don't know what else to say. Saying it's thin (which judging by the pics it isn't) or cheap kind of boggles me to be honest.

Your material is really dirty looking too. You should try to wire wheel it, and just clean it up some more before welding.

[vectorsolid]

Originally Posted by RC000E

Yeah....and lay off the heat....your cooking that steel

Here ya go. I made another one.

Shot at 2007-10-27

It's not a Manifold, it's not anything. It's a test to understand the order in which things are welded. And what angles can be welded together and still get a torch in there.

In order to get a complete weld, all the way through the metal. the steel needs to be molten. If the puddle is 1/4" wide, the heat doesn't stop at the edge of the weld...

RC000E, do you have any thoughts on the correct order to put a manifold together in?

[vectorsolid]

Originally Posted by EdsGTI

Is that .065 tubing for a dump? 48 amps is too much, when i weld stuff that thin im set around 22amps.

22 amps?! Without starting anything. I'm going to simply say I feel you might be off by anywhere from 2-4 times on that. You can view that information at Millers web site. 1/16th tubing.
http://www.millerwelds.com/edu...r.php

It's not anything. It's junk metal I welded together for a test of how tight I can get my torch in there. I kind of mentioned that at the top it's a "thingy", not anything in particular. I went and checked again, got the peddle set for a max of 65. I raise and lower it as I'm working around the part, and to start a puddle, and to get good penetration. If I was way off on the heat, I'd have blown a massive hole in it. That didn't occur, and penetration is right on the money, with no distortion. And it's one piece of metal now, all the way through.

EdsGTI, Do you have any thoughts on the order that a manifold should be made in?


Modified by vectorsolid at 10:57 PM 10/27/2007

[speeddave]

on the manifold i made, heres what i did. i fully welded the collector, then fab'd up all the runners to the collector. after it was good and tacked, i welded as much of the runner's as i could with it all tacked together, except for where the runners meet the collector & head flange. then i broke apart the runners, finished welding them all together, i put them back on the head flange & collector and welded the remaining parts together. the hard part is the inside of the collector where the 4 parts join to their respective part of the collector.

i think it largely depends on the style of manifold. my advice is to fab and tack it all up, then you'll be able to see where you can fit your torch and in what order will work best.

[vectorsolid]

Are you welding the collector to the Turbo flange from Inside the flange?

[AspectIndustries]

Originally Posted by speeddave

on the manifold i made, heres what i did. i fully welded the collector, then fab'd up all the runners to the collector. after it was good and tacked, i welded as much of the runner's as i could with it all tacked together, except for where the runners meet the collector & head flange. then i broke apart the runners, finished welding them all together, i put them back on the head flange & collector and welded the remaining parts together. the hard part is the inside of the collector where the 4 parts join to their respective part of the collector.

i think it largely depends on the style of manifold. my advice is to fab and tack it all up, then you'll be able to see where you can fit your torch and in what order will work best.

I found is halarious, where you just brushed the "test" peice and called it a new peice. LOL!

Sure does look alot better when brushed off. LOL!

Still a burnt weld underneath, anyway you put it.

[RC000E]

Whoa....whoa....

For one...if you'd have cleaned the pipes that much to begin with the welds would look way better.

Secondly, the Miller information is a GUIDE. You need to adjust to conditions, as well as adjust the heat as your material is getting hotter. I'm sorry but your welds are overheated and dirty, so the first step to making the manifold would be to work on the heat control and the cleanliness. I'm just trying to help you out and tell what I'm seeing, that's all I can say.

Welding the collector to the flange should always be done on the inside and the outside. If your planning on making a manifold out of the thicker sch10 or 40 stuff, you should also weld the inside of the collector itself.

I myself weld all my manifolds in jigs so that the flange orientation doesn't change. Once mocked up, I can remove runners in the way and weld what I need to weld. Once cool, I can remove the finished one/s, and reinstall unwelded one/s. I weld all the runners in the jig so that they can't move or warp, then let them cool so I know when I put them back in they'll fit perfectly. Last I remove certain ones if necessary, and weld each runner to the collector in a particular order I choose as best. Kind of complicated to put into words. This is all stuff you just need to learn and figure out by doing.

[vectorsolid]

Originally Posted by RC000E

Whoa....whoa....

For one...if you'd have cleaned the pipes that much to begin with the welds would look way better.

Secondly, the Miller information is a GUIDE. You need to adjust to conditions, as well as adjust the heat as your material is getting hotter. I'm sorry but your welds are overheated and dirty, so the first step to making the manifold would be to work on the heat control and the cleanliness. I'm just trying to help you out and tell what I'm seeing, that's all I can say.

Welding the collector to the flange should always be done on the inside and the outside. If your planning on making a manifold out of the thicker sch10 or 40 stuff, you should also weld the inside of the collector itself.

I myself weld all my manifolds in jigs so that the flange orientation doesn't change. Once mocked up, I can remove runners in the way and weld what I need to weld. Once cool, I can remove the finished one/s, and reinstall unwelded one/s. I weld all the runners in the jig so that they can't move or warp, then let them cool so I know when I put them back in they'll fit perfectly. Last I remove certain ones if necessary, and weld each runner to the collector in a particular order I choose as best. Kind of complicated to put into words. This is all stuff you just need to learn and figure out by doing.

Thanks for replying, I'm not unhappy with the welds, I am a bit disappointed with the direction the thread went though. Thread wasn't intended to be a critique of the junk metal I used. Good grief. Granted, I'll approach a thread like this differently next time.

I did mention I'm working the peddle right? Not just sitting there blowing dime sized holes through thin tubing with 80+ amps. There is no metal distortion, no warpage, no holes, complete penetration. I'm content with that.

Here's my first test on simple alignment of 2 plates that I tacked to the table and kept manipulating tubing until I got what resembled a manifold. It is not a manifold, it's garage art. When tubing has to be at a particular place, it makes things a whole lot more involved. That was what I wanted to test and get a feel for.

This was welded at whatever amperage makes you happiest. I have got to admit though, getting things EXACTLY in a particular spot is considerably tougher than just tossing tubing in a row and welding it together for no real reason. ALSO, I'm doing this with junk shop metal, because frankly, I'm not interested in trying to figure this out by spending $20-$25 for every 90 degree bend with stainless. (or about $5 per 90 for mild steel.)
http://chassisshop.com/catpdf.htm

Got a comment on how a manifold is built. Love to hear it. A lot of us on the forum would leave to hear about how the tubing in a manifold is organized for final welding.


Shot at 2007-10-28


Shot at 2007-10-28




Modified by vectorsolid at 4:48 AM 10/28/2007

[DESTROYER]

??? You don't take constructive criticism well at all. RC000E Just gave you specific instructions on how to put one together. I'm boggled at your blatant ignorance and lack of respect for the answers that were given to you!

[speeddave]

Originally Posted by vectorsolid

Are you welding the collector to the Turbo flange from Inside the flange?

i welded it on the outside and inside. i used sched 40 mild steel 90's, they were cheap and are a cheap way to practice making a manifold. after your done if you like it, use the money you saved not buying stainless and get it ceramic coated i bought the flanges from wierracing, and built the collector with a jig i made and a chopsaw. if i can do it, you can do it... i've seen your garage/projects, hahaha.

[vectorsolid]

Originally Posted by DESTROYER

??? You don't take constructive criticism well at all. RC000E Just gave you specific instructions on how to put one together. I'm boggled at your blatant ignorance and lack of respect for the answers that were given to you!

Thanks for writing, do you have anything useful to contribute to this topic?

I didn't ask for any criticism at all. I asked if anybody knew how they were getting the pipes together on a manifold build. Had I asked for specific critique of my abilities, then that would be fine. I didn't ask that, and that's not the title of the thread. Nor is that helpful for people that are interested in how the order of the pipes takes place, and the sequence they are welded in. Which dilutes the thread even worse than my diatribe explaining how it dilutes the thread.

The answers that have been given about the topic have been very helpful. And if you have included one, excellent. I, and those that are interested in this topic also appreciate it.

My personal involvement is that I am trying to understand what order it goes together in, hence the thread. I just want to understand the process of puting pipes in the right order. And if the thread eventually turns into a "how to locate parts and build a header thread" that would be fine too. As it still relates to specific problems and nobody in particular. Good general information.

What all the comments about the welding did was de-rail the thread into something else. It's the same thing as somebody selling something like a cold air intake on these forums and 9 guys commenting on how he needs to clean his carpet which is shown in the background. He just wanted to sell his item... did not ask if his carpet needed cleaned. Are you interested in the cold air intake or not?

Same situation.

I love criticism, happy to get it, wasn't what I was looking for from this thread, nor what I asked. HENCE, my lack of interest in it, and a general hope of puting this de-railed thread back on track.

Modified by vectorsolid at 1:48 PM 10/28/2007


Modified by vectorsolid at 1:52 PM 10/28/2007

[vectorsolid]

Originally Posted by speeddave

i welded it on the outside and inside. i used sched 40 mild steel 90's, they were cheap and are a cheap way to practice making a manifold. after your done if you like it, use the money you saved not buying stainless and get it ceramic coated i bought the flanges from wierracing, and built the collector with a jig i made and a chopsaw. if i can do it, you can do it... i've seen your garage/projects, hahaha.

Speeddave,

Thanks for the comments. That's what I'm starting to think. A bit of inside and outside welding on the flange. Did you use tubing donuts or some kind of single 90 degree bends you stumbled on? Be cool to find a great source for cheap 90 degree bends for those that might be interested.

[RC000E]

LOL....boy I tell you.

I answered your questions, but because I simply spoke on what I saw your gonna go on a tangent about it? It's not like your thread is being flooded with people trying to give you a step by step diy how to on making manifolds here, nor should they have to. God only knows this subject has been covered countless times...but everyone was polite and left that out, including myself.

I stepped up and gave you information to help you build a manifold successfully...part of that success relies on the weld quality. I am a fabricator, so it's in my nature to look at the whole picture. You expect me to look at the pipe in the picture, but not look at the welds on that pipe? That's hardly similar to your "carpet in the background" analogy.

If you can come in here and ask up-front for how to weld runners, how to weld flanges on, where to get the pipe, what to buy, then that tells me you are willing to ask help when you feel you lack knowledge or ability. For you to react so aggressively when your welds are brought into question, that tells me you feel that you need no improvement. If that's the case, then that's fine, but don't expect everyone to tip toe around your thread.

I provided you with insight and advice, and instead of appreciating that, you want to criticize the manner in which I provided it so.....you can have your thread