satitus

So below you will see dyno plots from 2 motors with very similar bolt ons. I just thought the comparison is interesting (compression on the B16, etc). Basically, the B16a blew up so I took all the parts off and slapped them on the B18c.

Specs:
1992 Civic CX

B16a2 from 2000 civic Si
Endyn Rollerwave pistons (about 11.6:1 CR)
Comptech Icebox
Skunk2 IM
RMF Header
Buddyclub 3+ cams with toda cam gears
Portflow springs and retainers
Thermal 2.5" exhaust hooked to ITR muffler
Intake cam advanced 2 degrees (that alone gained my 4 whp up top)
Hondata S100 tune on a dynapack 2 years ago

Same dyno same tuner

New motor specs
JDM B18c from 1995 GSR
Stock bottom end (10.6:1 CR)
Same parts as before:
Comptech Icebox
RMF Header
Buddyclub 3+ cams with OEM cam gears
Portflow springs and retainers
Thermal 2.5" exhaust hooked to ITR muffler
Hondata S100 tune on a dynapack 4 days ago

What is different:
Skunk2 PRO IM
No cam adjustment.

I think that cam tuning may have gained me 4-6 whp up top.

B16a tq



b16a whp


b18c tq




b18c whp



Modified by satitus at 7:10 PM 6/29/2007


Modified by satitus at 7:12 PM 6/29/2007


Modified by satitus at 10:24 AM 7/2/2007


Modified by satitus at 6:54 PM 7/2/2007


Modified by satitus at 6:55 PM 7/2/2007


Modified by satitus at 6:55 PM 7/2/2007


Modified by satitus at 6:56 PM 7/2/2007


Modified by satitus at 6:56 PM 7/2/2007


Modified by satitus at 6:57 PM 7/2/2007


Modified by satitus at 6:58 PM 7/2/2007

Unreasonable

Wow that red line drops in the b18ctq dyno round 5252. But very cool how you're looking at a 30-ish hp difference between the b16 and b18 around 5-6k.

Intriguing how your power starts to flatten off at 8krpm. Something's reached its threshold or perhaps timing is starting to interfere. What size injectors/IM/TB/seuqential or nonsequential header? Do you have your air/fuel curves? Just squeeze a tube of honda bond on there, that'll add a few hp in top end

Who out there has a K or H or b18c5r or dz series with same mods to compare too?

satitus

Good questions. I forgot to mention that the B16 had prelude injectors. The B18c uses stock injectors.
I am assuming that the flattening at 8k out could have been eliminated had I gotten the cam timing tuned. It could be that the flow characteristics of the B16 is better than the B18 at higher RPMs...? I dunno.
Man those buddyclub cams do not like a low VTEC xover. 6200 gives a nice pop.

realis9

the dyno pics are too small i cann't see them.

satitus

Sorry they are hyperlinks to larger pics. I don't know how to post larger pics, only links to larger pics. I am using through imageshack as the host.
Until I learn how to post the actual pics, you have to click on each one.

Phil M

LOL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by realis9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the dyno pics are too small i cann't see them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

realis9

what was the whp and tq #'s on both motors?

Phil M

sander

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satitus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good questions. I forgot to mention that the B16 had prelude injectors. The B18c uses stock injectors.
I am assuming that the flattening at 8k out could have been eliminated had I gotten the cam timing tuned. It could be that the flow characteristics of the B16 is better than the B18 at higher RPMs...? I dunno.
Man those buddyclub cams do not like a low VTEC xover. 6200 gives a nice pop.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You should look at torque (remember HP is just a function of tq and rpm), that is the true indicator of how an engine is preforming. This flattening that you speak of can be dealt with in a number of ways, generally though if you have a pretty serious tq fall you either don't have enough ign advance after peak tq or the cams just fall out in the higher range. From my old experience the BC3's seem to do better on the mid range rather than the top end.

-s

satitus

So perhaps working with cam timing would have flattened out the tq curve up top? Makes sense since the B16 was cam tuned whereas the B18 was not. So, it sounds like less of a head flow rate difference than I had thought.

sander

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satitus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So perhaps working with cam timing would have flattened out the tq curve up top? Makes sense since the B16 was cam tuned whereas the B18 was not. So, it sounds like less of a head flow rate difference than I had thought.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well I was actually speaking of ignition timing.
This will only affect it a small bit though, generally it has to do more with the set up of the engine and how the cam works with the rest of the set up. As far as flow rates go, Its a poor comparison because of the simple fact that the GSR head has an awesome quench pad in the chamber that is far better IMO than the B16.

This is just personal opinion though.

satitus

Yeah I recall reading something by Larry Widmer (Endyn) in Honda Tuning. He prefers the B18C over the B16 head. Thanks for the input!

R-Rated

Small dyno pics reflect small amounts of power.

JK Steve.

You should have bought my R motor when I had my old car.

satitus

It is a link to a _bigger_ picture. Confusing, I know.

Boostfed

My tuner Shad Sawyer tuned a car the other night 1999 Civic Si bone stock B16A internallly. The valve cover has never been off except for a timing belt change and valve adjustment. The mods to it are a Skunk2 ProSeries Intake Manifold and they tested out a DTR(now Six Sigma Racing) 2.0 Liter B Series header. Oh and Hondata S100

Before the header it ran though the stock B16A exhaust manifold and made 155whp and 109 ft-lb torque. The put the header on and after tuning it made 169.2whp and 114 ft-lb torque , take into account 3.5whp of that was from taking the Power Steering belt off. I swear it is a MIRACLE MOTOR lol

I have all teh dyno sheets here I have to scan them and post them. This was on a Dynojet 248C in ground dyno also, BIG ROLLERS.


Thought I would share for comparison sakes also

satitus

NIce gains form that header! Post em up!
I wish I had before/after with my cams and header on the same dyno.
I had ITR cams and header (same internals) tuned on a dynojet and made 163/113.

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

anyone has pictures or other link to b16 vs gsr dyno with boltons.
i cant find **** anymore all these old *** links with no pictures is stupid. why nobody clean it up.

all this info with no pictures doesnt help anyone

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Use Evan's dyno database.

dellas

B16 vs B18 same bolt-ons, same head, same car

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

that doesnt look like bone stock engines with boltons

b16 and gsr both peak hp around 7000-8000rpm

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

B16's really like to rev. But I think it's interesting that specific hp is so close in these engines and B18 wins so hard on specific torque.

dellas

Owner said it had Skunk2 Tuner 2 in it, stock bottom and stock port head.

This is the best comparison which I have done so far. Don't have any stock engine comparisons...Sorry.

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

oh ok that makes more sense.

i was trying to find a b16 with boltons and itr style intake manifold tuned vs bone stock gsr motor with no mods at all