Official ITB Performance Discussion

[Top Ramen]

I don't like the little filters that go on each stack, as I believe they interfere with the flow characteristics you put the horns on there for in the first place. I much prefer this style of filter: or this K&N or this one You just make a plate for the top and bottom and secure it with a threaded rod. Had an old Porsche with this type on the Webers and it worked great.

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[Top Ramen]

p-boy,

I could fab you up a plenum out of acrylic and then put little neon lights in it. It's be tiiiiiight, yO!

[Ponyboy]

You first!!

[Top Ramen]

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea of a plenum with flat filters on top. Would be so easy to make and should work efficiently.

[Ponyboy]

I'd rather have the filter on top as well: easier design, replacement, and less weight.

[slvdrgn3]

as far as filtering goes, does anyone know of someone who has put filters in the side scoops or on a hatch scoop to keep a clean ITB look to their engine bay? Would it hinder performance much because the filters could block incoming air from getting in or do you think the engine would still suck in the appropriate amount of air without getting starved?

[Ponyboy]

From various pics, this setup has the filters on either side of the car where the ducts are.



Unless there's a top mounted filter here:



As an alternative, I found these Uni Filter velocity stack filters:

[HATCHBACK GORILLA!]

ITB's = sickness......ITB'S + NSX= PRICELESS......lol

[JDM_rolex]

in my opinion, i think for the C30-C32 engines to maximize the power band turbo is the way to go, but i sould much rather perfer ITBd C30-C32. first off its a Honda, they are known for high end and NA power that most other manufactures dont have.


final thought, i would chose ITB power over turbo anyday because, whats cooler, to go 10-11 sec NA or 10-11 sec turbo? for me its NA, not only that but the price for a turbo is high! 15k from lovefab, i respect the engineering but thats real deep for the pockets...but if you own a NSX you must have deep pockets, i just drive a GSR powerd Civic Wagon. haha, nice stuff though!


some day hope to have a NSeX..hahah

[slvdrgn3]

although the turbo kits for the nsx are expensive, if you are looking for power they are the way to go. To have an NA car with huge power it will cost more for less power than if you were to go turbo. But when i get my nsx i would like to go NA with it over a turbo car. because which is going to be more impressive, a 350whp NA or a turbocharged one?

[Ponyboy]

I think it's common knowledge that going the ITB route is a much different animal than FI and has it's own +/-'s. It's not going to get as much power as a turbo and costs roughly the same. Whether someone goes the max NA route vs. FI is contingent upon their own build goals.

For me, I'm not big into HP wars. Just gimme a decent amount of power w/ a nice powerband and let me have fun on track. I've seen far too many track cars w/ too much hp and not enough driver talent end up spending too much time in the pit or the tire wall to make massive hp the defining part of my track car.

But that's just me.

[JDM_rolex]

Ponyboy-
i would have to agree with you, i am only 19 and many times i see people around my age run cars that have 300-400 hp cars, on the drag strip but the sad thing is that they cant drive the car properly, and that results in bad times, bad trannys. for me, my brother has always taught me to learn how to drive good with a slow car and move your way up, you cant just jump into a high powered car and not know how to drive it,but as of now i feel that i am not good enough at driving my car. other than that all you NSX owners, i would really love to be in the passenger set of your NSX to learn and watch how you drive...

ITB's anyday!

[Top Ramen]

P-boy, I am thinking that, for your needs, you should just go with the Hogan and a good cold-air system. Put a 100-120mm TB on it and call it a day.

[Ponyboy]

Ehhh, I don't know. I want to wait until the the car comes back before I make a decision. And I have to admit the whole engineering (ie max tuned NA) part of the equation is very appealing.

[Top Ramen]

You won't see any more power from ITBs than you will from a well-designed manifold. The only advantage would be a slight edge in throttle response. However, the intake would be easier to tune, easier to keep in tune, easier to filter effectively and cheaper.

[LHP]

The real advantage to the ITB intake system is the ability to run very aggressive cams and still have good drivability and throttle response,
which you will not have with a plenum type manifold,
no matter how well it's designed with real large cams.
(For street driving that is!) dragracing is another story.

The HP that S.O.S has made with the ITB system is something like 30hp over a reworked stock intake manifold on the NSX.
But you will have to ask them.

And you can still turbo this ITB intake system if more power is needed.
I have the parts for that.

The throttles on the S.O.S ITB systems are straight bore, not tapered,
at 48m/m and at 50m/m depending on the system.

Oh the name is Hayward performance, not Haywood.
And NO, you will have to buy the systems from S.O.S.
They own the design.

LHP
http://www.haywardperformance.com

[2004es2]

Put itb's with a custom air box that is built strong and turbo it. It would be hard to do but it would be a first. It can be done for sure because it is done on sport bikes all the time.Just a thaught.

[jvtec95]

there are more than a few stock cars that run that ocnfiguration, it may be a first on an nsx though. Talk about $$$!

[Top Ramen]

Originally Posted by LHP

The real advantage to the ITB intake system is the ability to run very aggressive cams and still have good drivability and throttle response,
which you will not have with a plenum type manifold,
no matter how well it's designed with real large cams.

You can not run bigger cams with the SoS ITB set-up than you can with a good intake mani. The real limit on these motors is valve-to-valve clearence. Even the modest performance cam that Web makes for SoS is close to the limit. You are not going to go much bigger, no matter what intake you use. And, idle with those cams is just fine, even with the stock intake manifold.

Originally Posted by LHP

The HP that S.O.S has made with the ITB system is something like 30hp over a reworked stock intake manifold on the NSX.
But you will have to ask them.

I have asked them. I also have considerable experience with built NSX motors. The jump in hp over a 'reworked' stock intake mani is not a meaningful comparison here, as the stock intake is fairly restrictive, even if you port it out. I would hope that any decent individual set-up would see big gains over it. My point is that a good intake manifold with stacks would make at least as much power, be easier to filter, easier to tune and would cost less. The downside is a slight decrease in mid-range throttle response.

Originally Posted by LHP

And you can still turbo this ITB intake system if more power is needed.

What would be the point of adding five thousand dollars to the cost of the turbo system?

[4f_B_Doc]

I am all for running itb's on an nsx but i would like to see some kind of dyno chart that shows the power curve. A buddy of mine with his integra type r was running itb's and couldn't make anymore power past 8k rpm. He went back to a big manifold setup and now makes power all the way past 10k rpm.

[LHP]

Throttle sizing and runner length can have a big effect on engine performance,
And your buddies application,
who knows the differences from the one intake system to the other.

I've made plenum type manifolds for racers as well as ITB systems,
both can make big power in the same RPM area,
but they have to be designed for the range wanted/needed.

LHP
haywardperformance.com

[JDM knowledge]

Originally Posted by 4f_B_Doc

I am all for running itb's on an nsx but i would like to see some kind of dyno chart that shows the power curve. A buddy of mine with his integra type r was running itb's and couldn't make anymore power past 8k rpm. He went back to a big manifold setup and now makes power all the way past 10k rpm.

i love to see the dyno of the power all the way past 10k RPM please. Not doubting i just know its hard as hell so im curious.

[4f_B_Doc]

i can see if i he has the dyno sheets but i can tell you his itr made 268whp if i am not mistaken

[Juan_Mitosis]

Originally Posted by 4f_B_Doc

I am all for running itb's on an nsx but i would like to see some kind of dyno chart that shows the power curve. A buddy of mine with his integra type r was running itb's and couldn't make anymore power past 8k rpm. He went back to a big manifold setup and now makes power all the way past 10k rpm.

Power beyond 8k is more dependent on Cam than on intake. I don't believe ITB's would make a difference of 2K rpm max power development. Another thing is tuning. Maybe the Type R was never tuned to properly take advantage of the ITB setup? But I might be terribly wrong, I'm just curious, since I'm driving an N/A B series too, and I'm curious about ITB's.

[4f_B_Doc]

Originally Posted by Juan_Mitosis

Power beyond 8k is more dependent on Cam than on intake. I don't believe ITB's would make a difference of 2K rpm max power development. Another thing is tuning. Maybe the Type R was never tuned to properly take advantage of the ITB setup? But I might be terribly wrong, I'm just curious, since I'm driving an N/A B series too, and I'm curious about ITB's.

Well it was tuned by Evan-tuning which is a familar name to honda tuning but not everybody can tune for itb's, its an art