Honda and Acura Technical Forums

7rrivera7 · 01-12-2007, 05:42 AM

The B18 engine is currently running fine. I'm going to remove it and rebuild it as an LSVTEC. I'm gathering the parts I need and I'm about to purchase an ACL Race Bearings kit. I'm assuming I need to purchase the standard size kit right?

...or do I have to take measurements after I tear down the block?

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LSVTEC 91 Civic · 01-12-2007, 06:00 AM

They should clearance out perfect. Get the STD bearings.

91SiZ6 · 01-12-2007, 01:42 PM

Always take measurements. Triple check everything and assume nothing.

bambam · 01-12-2007, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7rrivera7

...or do I have to take measurements after I tear down the block?

Ding ding ding.

ExospeedAMcrx · 01-13-2007, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bambam

Ding ding ding.

haha. ya you cant assume that all blocks will measure the same. you never know, your ACLs may not even fit the clearances you need for your motor.

BearsEK-KMSU · 01-13-2007, 11:05 AM

If std. bearings worked every time it wouldn't be an import.

Phil M · 01-13-2007, 12:04 PM

There was this machine shop once upon a time I used to bring cylinder heads to... the guy that build the blocks didn't measure anytrhing. NOTHING. He used acl bearings and never even plastiguaged it, he said that they are always within spec. The word around San Diego is that his motors suck and aparently ALL aluminum pistons "will not work with street engines and smoke alot." Well, you can guess where I'm going with this. If you want to be lazy just buy a new engine from honda or dish out the cash to have it done right. Good luck with your build...

bambam · 01-13-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theyoungone

There was this machine shop once upon a time I used to bring cylinder heads to... the guy that build the blocks didn't measure anytrhing. NOTHING. He used acl bearings and never even plastiguaged it, he said that they are always within spec. The word around San Diego is that his motors suck and aparently ALL aluminum pistons "will not work with street engines and smoke alot." Well, you can guess where I'm going with this. If you want to be lazy just buy a new engine from honda or dish out the cash to have it done right. Good luck with your build...

Steer away from the uneducated employees at the shop.

7rrivera7 · 01-13-2007, 12:44 PM

I'll be buying bearing (standard, not race) after the tear down. Now I just need to e-educate myself on taking measurements and checking clearances. I really want to do this on my own

91SiZ6 · 01-13-2007, 03:20 PM

Open your repair manual to the section on Engine Overhaul. That will show you how to check your block, crank, and rods for the OEM bearing sizes as well as what to do with the Plastigage.

Since nobody's mentioned it, ACL/Cleavite/King/etc. bearings are sized for Honda's Green (middle) sized bearing. With bearings you can either have "within spec" with aftermarket bearings or you can have the exact clearance you want with OEM bearings. Food for thought.

Oh, and LS2 is the engine from the '05 'Vette...possibly other GM cars, but I don't feel like looking it up right now.

ExospeedAMcrx · 01-13-2007, 03:31 PM

Bearing sizes are like choosing shoe sizes. You try and fit which size is the best for you, lets say yours is a size 10 shoe. But they only have a 10.5 for your left foot and 9.5 for your right foot. Both sizes may fit alright and I'm sure you can walk around with them. But both are not perfect. One is on the looser end of the spectrum and the other is on the tighter, but theyre not extreme that your feet hurt like a bitch.

ok guys this is a rough analogy, but I hope you get the picture. haha.

7rrivera7 · 01-13-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91SiZ6

Open your repair manual to the section on Engine Overhaul. That will show you how to check your block, crank, and rods for the OEM bearing sizes as well as what to do with the Plastigage.

Hmm...repair manual. I need to add this to my list

I'm assuming Helms? Should be the Acura Integra LS. Need to couple this with a VTEC manual - should I get a 2000 Si?

Any good links on digital Helms manuals?

DonF · 01-13-2007, 03:59 PM

Just curious, when you change the rod material to 4320 ( Eagle, Scat, Crower, etc.) and get the motor to temp. !90 water, 200 oil, is the clearance the same as using stock rods? Which expands more, less? What is the main Cl. at temp, Should the al. block and cast iron caps be taken into consideration? Would the clearances be the same for AL. or Titanium rods? The only numbers that matter would be under operating temperature. With better rods ( more consistant ) under temp. and load what do you do?

Phil M · 01-13-2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bambam

Steer away from the uneducated employees at the shop.

He was the owner.

BearsEK-KMSU · 01-13-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonF

Just curious, when you change the rod material to 4320 ( Eagle, Scat, Crower, etc.) and get the motor to temp. !90 water, 200 oil, is the clearance the same as using stock rods? Which expands more, less? What is the main Cl. at temp, Should the al. block and cast iron caps be taken into consideration? Would the clearances be the same for AL. or Titanium rods? The only numbers that matter would be under operating temperature. With better rods ( more consistant ) under temp. and load what do you do?

But i think if you start with the same clearances they will at least grow or shrink within the same spec other than buying a std set of bearings and having the clearances up and down, I don't think most people grind honda cranks dead nuts on every journal then re-nitride them and most od the time the main bores aren't perfect. just my 2 cents.

bambam · 01-13-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonF

Just curious, when you change the rod material to 4320 ( Eagle, Scat, Crower, etc.) and get the motor to temp. !90 water, 200 oil, is the clearance the same as using stock rods? Which expands more, less? What is the main Cl. at temp, Should the al. block and cast iron caps be taken into consideration? Would the clearances be the same for AL. or Titanium rods? The only numbers that matter would be under operating temperature. With better rods ( more consistant ) under temp. and load what do you do?

What about bi metal vs. tri metal bearings? Do they expand at different rates? Or different bearing manufacturers, are they chemically the same and expand at the same rates? What about different oils? Different oils expand at different rates as well. This is a VERY good question...one of the better that has been asked for awhile actually. Thanks Don.

bambam · 01-13-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theyoungone

He was the owner.

In that case, you should shit in his bushes. If he has them, of course.

7rrivera7 · 01-14-2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7rrivera7

Hmm...repair manual. I need to add this to my list

I'm assuming Helms? Should be the Acura Integra LS. Need to couple this with a VTEC manual - should I get a 2000 Si?

Any good links on digital Helms manuals?

DonF · 01-14-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bambam

What about bi metal vs. tri metal bearings? Do they expand at different rates? Or different bearing manufacturers, are they chemically the same and expand at the same rates? What about different oils? Different oils expand at different rates as well. This is a VERY good question...one of the better that has been asked for awhile actually. Thanks Don.

Thougt you might like it. Carrillo and Oliver are the only rod mfg. that gives a theoretical cl. with their rods. Your cl. is the tighest on start-up so what oil do you use, especially if you are planning on switching to synthetic? How about if you have .0015 crank runout on the center main, what cl.?

The Destroyer · 01-14-2007, 03:31 PM

So what tool is used to measure clearances? And whats the process?

The Destroyer · 01-14-2007, 06:01 PM

I know you can use plastigauge, but that means you already have bearings. What if the bearings arent the correct clearance? Where do you go from there?

91SiZ6 · 01-15-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonF

Thougt you might like it. Carrillo and Oliver are the only rod mfg. that gives a theoretical cl. with their rods. Your cl. is the tighest on start-up so what oil do you use, especially if you are planning on switching to synthetic? How about if you have .0015 crank runout on the center main, what cl.?

for answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeletor!

So what tool is used to measure clearances? And whats the process?

Combustion Contraption made a good post about it. Search it out.

bambam · 01-15-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91SiZ6

for answer.

Same here. I've never even thought about it, and it's scary to even try.

The Destroyer · 01-15-2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91SiZ6

Combustion Contraption made a good post about it. Search it out.

TY, that was a very good read.

01-12-2007, 01:42 PM	#3
91SiZ6 Join Date: May 2006 Location: California, United States Posts: 961	Always take measurements. Triple check everything and assume nothing. __________________ ArtieTuned D16Z6 135.6whp 111.8tq. http://www.LSDMotorSports.com http://www.RyWire.com http://www.CTRDynoSports http://www.ArtieTuned.com http://www.J-K-Tuning.com

01-13-2007, 11:05 AM	#6
BearsEK-KMSU Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: oconomowoc, WI, usa Posts: 834	Re: ? On buying ACL bearings for my LSVTEC build (exospeedAMcrx) If std. bearings worked every time it wouldn't be an import.

01-13-2007, 12:04 PM	#7
Phil M Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: CA Posts: 571	Re: ? On buying ACL bearings for my LSVTEC build (bearsEK) There was this machine shop once upon a time I used to bring cylinder heads to... the guy that build the blocks didn't measure anytrhing. NOTHING. He used acl bearings and never even plastiguaged it, he said that they are always within spec. The word around San Diego is that his motors suck and aparently ALL aluminum pistons "will not work with street engines and smoke alot." Well, you can guess where I'm going with this. If you want to be lazy just buy a new engine from honda or dish out the cash to have it done right. Good luck with your build... __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKL_EpnSp8

01-13-2007, 12:44 PM	#9
7rrivera7 Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Comerio, PR, USA Posts: 1,291	Re: ? On buying ACL bearings for my LSVTEC build (bambam) I'll be buying bearing (standard, not race) after the tear down. Now I just need to e-educate myself on taking measurements and checking clearances. I really want to do this on my own

01-13-2007, 03:20 PM	#10
91SiZ6 Join Date: May 2006 Location: California, United States Posts: 961	Re: ? On buying ACL bearings for my LSVTEC build (7rrivera7) Open your repair manual to the section on Engine Overhaul. That will show you how to check your block, crank, and rods for the OEM bearing sizes as well as what to do with the Plastigage. Since nobody's mentioned it, ACL/Cleavite/King/etc. bearings are sized for Honda's Green (middle) sized bearing. With bearings you can either have "within spec" with aftermarket bearings or you can have the exact clearance you want with OEM bearings. Food for thought. Oh, and LS2 is the engine from the '05 'Vette...possibly other GM cars, but I don't feel like looking it up right now. __________________ ArtieTuned D16Z6 135.6whp 111.8tq. http://www.LSDMotorSports.com http://www.RyWire.com http://www.CTRDynoSports http://www.ArtieTuned.com http://www.J-K-Tuning.com

01-12-2007, 06:00 AM	#2
LSVTEC 91 Civic Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 7,183	They should clearance out perfect. Get the STD bearings.

01-13-2007, 03:31 PM	#11
ExospeedAMcrx H-T Basic Sponsor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: www.exospeed.com, Valencia, CA Posts: 11,835	Re: ? On buying ACL bearings for my LSVTEC build (91SiZ6) Bearing sizes are like choosing shoe sizes. You try and fit which size is the best for you, lets say yours is a size 10 shoe. But they only have a 10.5 for your left foot and 9.5 for your right foot. Both sizes may fit alright and I'm sure you can walk around with them. But both are not perfect. One is on the looser end of the spectrum and the other is on the tighter, but theyre not extreme that your feet hurt like a bitch. ok guys this is a rough analogy, but I hope you get the picture. haha. __________________ Exospeed Racing Products/Exospeed Racing Wheels(New 3piece wheels!) Exospeed 3 Piece Racing Front Ends. New website up now. Work in progress! sales@exospeed.com

01-13-2007, 03:59 PM	#13
DonF Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Atl. Beach, fl, duval Posts: 5,197	Re: ? On buying ACL bearings for my LSVTEC build (7rrivera7) Just curious, when you change the rod material to 4320 ( Eagle, Scat, Crower, etc.) and get the motor to temp. !90 water, 200 oil, is the clearance the same as using stock rods? Which expands more, less? What is the main Cl. at temp, Should the al. block and cast iron caps be taken into consideration? Would the clearances be the same for AL. or Titanium rods? The only numbers that matter would be under operating temperature. With better rods ( more consistant ) under temp. and load what do you do?

01-14-2007, 03:31 PM	#20
The Destroyer Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: westcoast, FL Posts: 7,775	Re: ? On buying ACL bearings for my LSVTEC build (DonF) So what tool is used to measure clearances? And whats the process? __________________ SM Prepped EG8.

01-14-2007, 06:01 PM	#21
The Destroyer Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: westcoast, FL Posts: 7,775	Re: ? On buying ACL bearings for my LSVTEC build (Skeletor!) I know you can use plastigauge, but that means you already have bearings. What if the bearings arent the correct clearance? Where do you go from there? __________________ SM Prepped EG8.

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