Post here all replies to "[HOW-TO:] Car Security"

[suspendedHatch]

Originally Posted by fcm you sure do not want it to malfunction when your behind the wheel. 94 That's my answer to 90% of the wild ideas I get out there. Great ideas, but in reality, if things CAN go wrong, they eventually WILL.

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[wrx-killer-Sti-eater]

Yea, I was thinking about doing it. I just figured it out too. Was not to hard. A simple latch timer. A neg ground. Then pow. I was thinking of the legal issues too. Or me going to a bar and forgeting about it. Do not drink and drive. It acutualy works. Scary thing is if you look at the wire setup on the air bag. A small short can blow it out. I still working on something. Just wanted to make sure it works and is up to par before putting it out.

[icedemon]

Why is removing your ECU not recommended? Besides the obvious that maybe the thief comes with one? Is there any other way around getting the car?

[feck]

I would suspect icedemon constantly removing the ECU from the car may cause trouble in the long run. It resets every time so I can't imagine that would be too healthy. Maybe the connections would start loosening to boot. Personally I wouldn't be too happy doing it unless the car was been left while I buggered off on holiday. If nothing else it's pretty impractical. I'm probably wrong in this. Better counsel may come from others.


Anyway long time lurker , first time poster from Ireland, who in the past had a car stolen because his alarm was a) crap, b) badly fitted. Never again would I be so complacent. Luckily I got it back. At the time I knew no better and I think most people don't. It's not that they don't care, they just don't know. They get an alarm, and abdicate responsibility to the installer or the hype of the manufacturer like I did.

In fairness I had an alarm in the first place. I'm amazed that some posters here have really specced up cars that cost thousands and leave them unalarmed for the sake of a few quid and then freak out when they're stolen. Staggers the mind. Over here in Ireland pretty much everybody alarms their car(no matter how badly) and the car crime over here would appear to be less. This would be doubly the case for cars like WRX's Civic and Integra Type R's and the like. 99% would have a Clifford, Toad or some other "decent" alarm fitted. Being RHD means we get lots of very nice second hand Japanese stuff over here. Then again here you can only get Clifford alarms fitted by an authorised dealer. Some are good, others not so. I've seen some where you would have been better off with a cheaper alarm fitted properly.

The advice and info posted here by suspendedHatch/wrx-killer-Sti eater/fcm is top notch. suspendedHatch's sticky and website alone is a must read for anyone who doesn't fall for the bullshit of "if they want it, they'll take it". TBH anyone who thinks like that gets very little sympathy from me if their car gets lifted by some scumbag. You might as well wrap it in pretty pink paper and a bow with a note in flowery writing saying "Please relieve me of my hard earned cash you cheeky scoundrel".

As an aside suspendedHatch, from what I read of your comments me thanking you for your bloody fantastic advice is likely to get a request from you suggesting that I do something that is sexually and anatomically impossible so.... .

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned here is security tint or window film(can be clear too). That has saved at least one guy I know from having his headunit ripped out. Got it installed myself. Another layer as it where.

Disconnecting the lock mechanism in the integra doesn't require cutting it up. I just disconnected it from the plastic arm on the barrel and cable tied the rod out of the way. It just means it can be returned to stock without a trip to the scrapyard.

Here's a thought from an amateur; Rather than hunting around for door and boot/trunk wires in the sill etc, why not take the feed from the respective plugs going into the back of the gauge cluster? There are lights on an Integra and others that light up when your door or boot is open. Piggybacking the wire's on the back of the OEM harness for boot/door triggers would seem to save some hassle. Given that you can hide an alarm brain behind said cluster would that not be easier than hunting for wires? At least for those two. Would that have problems I haven't forseen? I can see having the brain in the door or elsewhere would reduce the advantage of such an idea.

As a project I'm currently getting a metalworker friend of mine to make up a something that will lock the three pedals together. I'll try to post piccies when finished.

One last thing, something that has proved somewhat effective for some is getting a big thick chain and wrapping it around and through the steering wheel and then through the holes in the tilted forward Recaro seats fitted to some Hondas, secured with a chain. An ex car thief I knew years ago swore by this.

Jeez that was a bit of a mouthful for a first post. Apologies in advance.


Modified by feck at 4:45 PM 11/20/2006

[wrx-killer-Sti-eater]

Well I tested my unit to day. And it works like a champ. Kind of scary but after the third air bag it was fine. But the unit will be scraped in favor that its to dangerous. . Theives beware, i can make boobie traps.

[suspendedHatch]

wrx-killer, that's awesome. I personally would never drive the car. I'd just park it as bait with a motion activated camera. Would make for a great candid moment.


1) If you have an OBD1 car, then any P06 or P28 or will run the car. The non-OBD cars and the OBD2 cars also have multiple ECUs that are easy to come by and that will run the car.

2) It's damned inconvenient to unplug and carry an ECU. You could easily lose or break the ECU or someone could come and steal it from you. Not to mention that when you don't remove your ECU, you now have it exposed for easy removal by a thief.

3) You start to expletive up the plugs and the pins in the ECU by the second or third time you pull it.

4) Each time you unplug the ECU, you erase your learned fuel map.

As I said, it's too inconvenient and not effective enough to be relied upon, so it makes the list. People have stated that they removed their ECU and the car still got stolen. Feck nailed it in his reply.


"Please relieve me of my hard earned cash you cheeky scoundrel".

Now I have a new insult to call people.

"As an aside suspendedHatch, from what I read of your comments me thanking you for your bloody fantastic advice is likely to get a request from you suggesting that I do something that is sexually and anatomically impossible so.... ."

Nothing is impossible. The impossible just takes longer and costs more money.

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned here is security tint or window film(can be clear too).

To stop the window from breaking? I don't know if that's available commercially here.

"Disconnecting the lock mechanism in the integra doesn't require cutting it up. I just disconnected it from the plastic arm on the barrel and cable tied the rod out of the way. It just means it can be returned to stock without a trip to the scrapyard."

Well on the later model Integras, they started putting a blocking plate around the door handle/lock bars. I'm not sure how effective they are considering how many Integras get stolen each day. The main thing I wanted to say about this comment is that it's not just the bars that open the door. I found out from a tow truck guy that they just go for the little loop at the latch that the bar connects to. That's where the cutting/hacking comes in. Hack that little loop off, block off the handle bar, and there's no way that I know of to get the door open. I tested this with a AAA tow truck guy. He couldn't get it.

"Here's a thought from an amateur"

Uh oh.

"Rather than hunting around for door and boot/trunk wires in the sill etc, why not take the feed from the respective plugs going into the back of the gauge cluster?"

Okay what the expletive are you talking about? You're talking about making it HARDER now. Pulling the cluster compared to pulling the door sill trim... hmm...

Also, an alarm wont fit behind the cluster on most cars. It works great on my EG. It works great on a 96 240SX. Integra I don't know. Haven't tried it. But an alarm fits behind the driver's side rear seat panel on EVERY 2 door Civic/Integra that I am aware of. Even Preludes and Accords. It's damn near universal. On cars with four doors, it's more difficult. That's why I wrote the article for the center console. It's a pain to get the rear seat panel off and back on, but everything else becomes very easy. You don't have to go to any great length to hide the wiring, sensors, siren, backup battery... it all goes back there. Try to fit any of that behind the cluster!!!

"One last thing, something that has proved somewhat effective for some is getting a big thick chain and wrapping it around and through the steering wheel and then through the holes in the tilted forward Recaro seats fitted to some Hondas, secured with a chain. An ex car thief I knew years ago swore by this."

What good is a thick-ass chain if it's secured by a rubber ring with a thin metal ring inside? I don't trust the steering wheel for anything related to security. Take a look at the pic above the "what doesn't work" heading.

Jeez that was a bit of a mouthful for a first post. Apologies in advance.

Apology accepted. Thank you for your detailed and lengthy input.

[wrx-killer-Sti-eater]

I found a wire on the dizzy to keep the car from starting. I have to make sure it does not cause engine damage. I tested it right now and the car starts but will not run. Now I have to find a spot to kill the wire. A place were you can't get to it.

[fcm]

Originally Posted by suspendedHatch

Nothing is impossible. The impossible just takes longer and costs more money.

LMAO, and will not stop till tomorrow 94

[nsxxtreme]

There is a better kill under the hood that I used on my Integra. The distributor that is sitting right out in the open has a power wire running to it.
(Black w/white strip or black w/yellow stripe)
Dont remember which.
Follow it down then cut it.
Connect two wires then run them inside the car, I used 10 Gauge wire. Wrap in flex tubing and run with the rest of the wires. It was nearly impossible to spot.

[Kavehman]

Originally Posted by feck

One last thing, something that has proved somewhat effective for some is getting a big thick chain and wrapping it around and through the steering wheel and then through the holes in the tilted forward Recaro seats fitted to some Hondas, secured with a chain. An ex car thief I knew years ago swore by this.

Thats actually not a bad idea for slowing thieves down who break into DC2 or DC5R's to steal the JDM recaro's, its a common occurence here.

Again it's only a deterrance but every little bit counts

[icedemon]

Ok thanks the advice. I just always removed it because when I swapped out my old motor I never got around to screwing the ECU back to the wall. And someone had mentioned it to me that removing it was a way of slowing them down. That's really all I need to do since my car is parked about 15-20 feet from my patio door. Just enough time to let the pit bull looose and bite the shit out of some thief.

[feck]

Originally Posted by suspendedHatch

Nothing is impossible. The impossible just takes longer and costs more money.

Hell I'm flexible, but no amount of money will help with such a request.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To stop the window from breaking? I don't know if that's available commercially here.</TD></TR></TABLE>Exactly, it helps stop the window breaking as easily as they normally do. You would be surprised how much force is required. You can go at the window with a hammer and it won't break without a lot of force and noise. Funny thing you can push it out from the inside in the event of a crash. I'm surprised you can't get it in the states. Though this crowd seem to do it over there; http://www.llumar.com/na-eng/Automotive/auto.html(If you ignore their ridiculous apocalyptic scare mongering about bombs and earthquakes on the main site) Here's an MPG from a place in Britain that does it. Gives some idea of it anyway;
http://www.autoasylum.co.uk/vi...s.mpg


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's where the cutting/hacking comes in. Hack that little loop off, block off the handle bar, and there's no way that I know of to get the door open. I tested this with a AAA tow truck guy. He couldn't get it.</TD></TR></TABLE>Ah right. Got you. So much so, that I went at the loop with a circlips pliers and removed the bugger entirely after I read this . Fiddly to do but now I can still return it to stock in the future(though who the hell ever does).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay what the expletive are you talking about? You're talking about making it HARDER now. Pulling the cluster compared to pulling the door sill trim... hmm...</TD></TR></TABLE>Pulling the cluster is easier than lifting the door sill trim on an Integra IMHO. Two screws, drop the steering column and pull it towards you. I took the sill trim off a previous Teg I had and it was a bitch. The plastic is held in by clips very tightly. Levering it off slowly and carefully with a screwdriver hoping the clips won't be buggered and it'll sit down right again was a pain for me. Long winded isn't in it if you want to avoid damage. When you compare it to removing the screws in the cluster I found it to be harder. Now obviously that was my experience and I do take your point. What I was trying to say was it might be an Integra specific alternative install that puts the brain in there and by plugging into the open door/boot lights saves the bother of trailing wires in the normal way.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, an alarm wont fit behind the cluster on most cars. It works great on my EG. It works great on a 96 240SX. Integra I don't know. Haven't tried it.</TD></TR></TABLE>Yep it'll fit behind on an Integra cluster alright. Again I see your point re most cars. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try to fit any of that behind the cluster!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>Well I fitted the brain and second peizo siren behind the cluster and high up in the dash respectively. The backup battery is the next thing to go in. Then again I might rip it all out and do it the way you suggest.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What good is a thick-ass chain if it's secured by a rubber ring with a thin metal ring inside? I don't trust the steering wheel for anything related to security. Take a look at the pic above the "what doesn't work" heading.</TD></TR></TABLE>True, but some steering wheel security measures are another layer. I have to disagree with you(and others) in some ways. A removable steering wheel is a deterrent and will slow them down, vice grips or not(some are more vice grip resistant than others, the SnapOff in particular). Here's a steering wheel lock that is thatcham approved(good) and again will slow them down; https://www.disklok.com/products.html Again as single deterrent it's not so good, but as an extra layer it's hardly ineffective. As you've pointed out the more layers and deterrents the more likely the scumbags will bugger off and nick a car with no or ineffective security.

[suspendedHatch]

nsxxtreme: it's black/yellow and I covered that at the bottom of page three on this thread. Black/white is the starter.

I never argued that removable steering wheels are not a good visual deterrent. I argued that the cost benefit is very little, the effectiveness is marginal, and the inconvenience is high. Please everybody, read the little disclaimer.

$35 for a 520T, or $$$ for a removable steering wheel that you're not going to use that much anyway. Why do so many people have the steering wheel and not the backup battery? Cuz removable steering wheels are the JDM bling-ness.

"Pulling the cluster is easier than lifting the door sill trim on an Integra IMHO."

I think you snorted a few too many lucky charms.

"Two screws, drop the steering column and pull it towards you."

Are you talking about the lower plastic steering cover? I'm talking about the gauge cluster. Taking it out is tedious and the potential to break or damage shit is higher than my normal stealth install. Not so bad that I don't recommend it. I highly recommend it. If everything fits back there, then it's a great location. It's a great location of 92-95 Civics, especially if they're remote start. But space is extremely limited and there's little to secure stuff to.

"I took the sill trim off a previous Teg I had and it was a bitch."

I took the panties off your mother and she's a bitch. Foo! On the 96-00 Civics it's a bitch. 01+ Civic it's a pain. On an Integra it's cake. I've done scores of them.

"The plastic is held in by clips very tightly. Levering it off slowly and carefully with a screwdriver hoping the clips won't be buggered and it'll sit down right again was a pain for me."

Panel popper works for me. To put it back together, make sure the clips are lined up, then smack it back down.

"Hell I'm flexible, but no amount of money will help with such a request."

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Think outside the box.

feck. I love your colorful wording. You're awesome.

[feck]

Originally Posted by suspendedHatch

I never argued that removable steering wheels are not a good visual deterrent..../...Why do so many people have the steering wheel and not the backup battery?

I think that the type of car crime is part of it too. Over here the stealing of high performance Jap cars is mainly done by "joy" riders. AKA scumbags. Mianly because they're so easy to lift. While they're sometimes taken for parts it's often a secondary reason. It's usually the newer cars, mercs beemers etc that are targeted by the pro thieves, usually by breaking into your house and stealing the keys. Within 24 hours they're on a ferry to Europe where they're broken for parts.

The removable steering wheels and stuff like that is generally more effective for the joyriding ****wits. From a lifetime of bad food and parenting their pinched little skulls have little space for much of a brain to speak off so deterrents like no steering wheel tends to throw most of them. For a start joyriding with vice grips is no joy I would imagine. Then again because we're not microencephalic like the thieves it's hard to figure out the mindset. Like you I certainly wouldn't rely on it, but regard it as a layer like anything else, though some layers are more effective than others.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cuz removable steering wheels are the JDM bling-ness.</TD></TR></TABLE>Yea the whole JDM thing is weird from my perspective. Over here the non JDM stuff is rarer.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you snorted a few too many lucky charms.</TD></TR></TABLE>Sir, one can never snort too many lucky charms.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you talking about the lower plastic steering cover? I'm talking about the gauge cluster.</TD></TR></TABLE> No the gauge cluster, though I forgot about the three screws securing the cluster itself. Silly me. There's me struck off the Haynes manual consultancy board(or maybe not).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But space is extremely limited and there's little to secure stuff to.</TD></TR></TABLE>That's true. The hands of a gynecologist would prove useful.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On an Integra it's cake. I've done scores of them.</TD></TR></TABLE>Maybe it's harder on the JDM stuff. Oh oh I may have started a trend. I'm gonna remove them and post them in the for sale section as genuine JDM sill panels.

In the end, if you have delocked doors, stealth good quality alarm, security tint on windows, no steering wheel(with the wheels turned all the way to one side or the other), anti hijack and a couple of cutoff switches hidden about the place, the chances are the car is going nowhere without a tow truck. Even then if the alarm is going apeshit because of the tilt switch and backup battery it's bringing a lot of unwanted attention to the scum.

I must say I love wrx-killer-Sti eater's airbag idea. Sadly I'd need to install an airbag and all it's components so hardly an amateur job. Though if I did attempt it I would like to figure a way of replacing the bag with a rusty spike.

[FuNkDrSpOt]

Big ups to suspended Hatch for helping me on my GF's alarm install and giving me numerous ideas from his own site. I have your HTML of your old website saved if you need it.


Anyways, I wanted to offer my link to your other thread so you can throw it up on the primary post for some alternate ways of avoiding car theft. It used to borrow heavily from your old website.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1743075

[feck]

On the subject of anti hijack(well not really but..) The Clifford Blackjax is good but pricey to say the least. Here's an alternative cheaper device. The "brain" is about the size of a packet of smokes(a little fatter). Thinking of getting one myself after a friend got one. Seems to work well enough. The trick as ever is in the hiding of the switch. Maybe better minds than my own could figure out a better way to arm/disarm it?

http://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/s...25d66
It does much the same thing. The only diff is that it's a hidden switch rather than a two button code type o thang. The Clifford can have trouble after a while with that switch. The three people I know who have the thing have had to replace the switch, one after a only a year.

They're in the UK but will ship worldwide. There's other stuff in there that might interest some. Maybe even some stuff people aren't familiar with in the US.

[wrx-killer-Sti-eater]

suspended, I'll knock out all the caddy's. give me two days and the right product. And It will be safe just like mine. Peep the sig for pics of it.

[suspendedHatch]

Not sure what you mean about the cluster only having three screws. It has about eight on an EG. But the screws aren't the trouble. The first time you take the cover out on an EG it would rather break. Same thing with the EM but the EM cover never gets any easier. The next problem is that there is precious little clearance for the alarm brain behind the cluster. I have mine back there and it's a pain in the ass to do any kind of maintenance or addition to the alarm. It's very difficult to tuck the wiring back down and get everything plugged in.

FuNkDrSpOt, edit your other thread and put http://causeforalarm.thecarthing.com/index.html instead of vsracing. Also, the name of one of the pages has changed so verify all your links. Oh yeah, and please don't flash my name around. I get enough people-that-lack-reading-comprension bugging me all the time. The FAQ thread at the top of this forum is much more up to date than the webpage.

Vice grips aren't the only way to beat a removable steering wheel. You guys forget how popular all your shit is and the fact that everyone and their mother has the same brand removable steering wheel that you do.

[EvenStar]

is it still possible for me to install this type of wiring stuff for the alarm on my car without any sort of experience? i have totally no car alarm installation experience.

[suspendedHatch]

If you go through the steps on the HOW TO and you're not completely useless, then yes you could do it.

First learn to connect wires by soldering and crimping. Then learn how to use a voltmeter to verify wires. Then take on sections of the install step by step allowing yourself plenty of time to learn as you go.

[EvenStar]

Well actually I dont solder for wire harnesses. I just attach the copper wires together, twist them, then put black electrical tape around it. Is that fine for the alarms? Thats what I did with my cd deck and it worked perfectly (I dont have the tools to solder anyway).

[Kavehman]

EvenStar : If you can't be bothered buying a $20.00 soldering iron to learn how to solder then I'd hate to think how cheap you are going to go on the alarm. No you cannot do a decent alarm install without soldering the connections.

If your too cheap to get the soldering Iron take a dump on the hood of your car each time you park it, that may act as a better deterrant. I wouldn't want to steal a car with shit on it.

[tha_badguy]

Your alarm is something you wanna do right the 1st time

You'll regret not soldering everything once ur done
You dont wanna have to go back in there to fix some wiring once everythings done

It isnt as easy to get to ur alarm wiring as it is to get to ur deck wiring

[suspendedHatch]

Twist and tape is horrible. The connections can pull or vibrate loose and often cause intermittent problems that are a nightmare to diagnose. I can't tell you how many times I've done an R&R where I noticed it was twist and taped, and it looked like a good connection but turned out to be the source of the problem. Solder it, tape it back up, and send the customer on the way.

You think your stereo works fine but it may be coping with intermittent power and ground connections leading to an early demise. Even more probably is that there is unnecessary resistance throughout all the wiring.

Soldering is easy and cheap to learn. If you can't learn to solder, you're not capable of installing an alarm.

[JDM_CRX_PLEASE]

MY question is. when u hook up the version one fuel pump kill switch. all u do is cut the wire thats for the fuel pump in half. and u just hook up one wire to neg and one to pos on the switch. just to brake the circut so u can have the switch to turn it on and off? thats all u need to do ?