Post here all replies to "[HOW-TO:] Car Security"

[fcm]

Originally Posted by wrx-killer-Sti eater Because it still easy to drive the car with big ole vise grips. Especialy if the car has power steering. Why do people think crooks are stupid, [dumb, yes] more then one car thief has been found with one of these... http://www.nationaltoolwarehou...t.htm and although maybe a deterrent and as a layer to your security, removable steering wheels IMO should be left to what they were meant to be used for, race cars that need steering wheels removed so you can get in and out of cockpit, yea it may be "bling" or "pimp" but I think I would rather have my air bag the day that numb-nut runs a red light and I "T" bone him. 94

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[suspendedHatch]

People ask "how could a thief ever get past this"? Then one day, they get stranded by their own security by accident and they find out exactly how easy it is to get past it when you're desperate and not afraid to break shit. If not you, then triple A or your neighborhood good samaritan/opportunist thief when he gives you a hand.

[Kavehman]

1. On some alarms you can use the starter as an immobilsation point. One of the immobilisation points was the ignition wire, now to immobilise it I cut the wire and soldered in my immobiliser wire (much like the starter interrupt), so basically the circuit now goes through the alarm brain.

To reduce the number or wire going under the dash I took the ignition wire and soldered it to the Immobiliser Wire which completes the ignition circuit.

So basically what im trying to get at is that you can connect some alarm wires to existing alarm wires for some circuits. eg. Doom light on after turning off alarm can be hooked up to the door trigger switch.

2. Once a thief has broken into the car it's going to be obvious that you have an alarm, so why not wrap most of the cables in split loom tubing and then wrap the split loom in electrical tape, its a bitch to pull apart once its done like this, or better you can use the black fabric tape.

This can be done to most of the cables under the dash and can be done to look close to factory finish.

Just a thought I had.

3. Another suggestion I have is to actually bolt the alarm in place using some metal brackets or wood. For some alarms if you cant get the brain out then you wont be able to defeat the alarm (applies to Aussie standard alarms which have all black wiring)





Modified by Kavehman at 8:16 AM 11/7/2006

[nightkidsi]

greatest write up ive ever read. im doing this install soon on my ek, im going to purchase a 791x or some sst model viper alarm with pager soon and now ima use this thread to install it.

is there anyway to hook up more sensors to the alarm unit to make it better? or is this useless?

thank
bryan

[suspendedHatch]

Stealth install w/remote start on that car is a bit harder to do. The reason being is that the 791XV comes with a relay satellite that has a bunch of 10 gauge wires that have to go to the ignition harness. It's very difficult to hide these which causes two problems 1) leaves a trail back to the alarm, 2) limits placement of the alarm.

I don't believe in putting the alarm under the dash at all. The only exception is on cars such as the S14 and the EG where you can put the alarm behind the cluster and none of it is exposed beneath the dash. Behind the cluster is great for a stealth install if you're A) doing a remote start, B) your car is a four door, C) the interior is stripped. Unfortunately there is not enough space behind the cluster on any Civic besides the 5th gen, and it doesn't look like there is on the Integra but I have yet to try it.

Your question on sensors just made me realize that I forgot half of the update! Here it is temporarily until I add it to the original How-To:

Sensors

Alarm sensors can be found cheap on ebay and are more or less compatible with all alarms. Glass breakage, motion, and any 2 way adjustable sensors may not be fully compatible with cheap alarms. All the more reason to buy a decent alarm.

Shock
Standard with all alarms. Detects large impact or vibration, in case someone tries to steal your car by ramming it with a large vibrator. No joke, these sensors are basically useless. You're better off w/out one. Causes false alarms leading to indifference. Recommend you remove or turn down the sensitivity on this sensor and use an alternative sensor.

Glass breakage
Since it is pretty easy to smash a door window w/out triggering a shock sensor, companies came up with a better method of detection. Glass breakage sensors typically employ a microphone listening for the frequency of breaking glass (or the sound of keys rapping on glass). Very effective at detecting intrusion, and rarely causes false alarms. Requires very little adjustment. Recommend the DEI 506T. Use this sensor or a motion sensor, but not both.

Motion/Proximity
Extremely effective at deterring and detecting intrusion. A necessity for soft-top cars. Difficult and time consuming to set up properly. Can cause false alarms. Most expensive type of sensor. Brand choice is very crucial as most motion/proximity sensors are pure crap. Recommend AGAINST the DEI 508D. Strongly recommend the Crime Guard/Omega AU94T available from Crutchfield.

Tilt
Good early warning detection of towing not just for theft but also parking violations. Also helpful at detecting a rim theft if the thief is careless. Rarely causes false alarms, and the better sensors have provisions for when you are parked on a slope. Recommend the DEI 507M.

Two-Way Adjustable
There are several names for this but basically it just means that the sensor has a warning trigger and an instant trigger. The sensitivity of one or both of these triggers may be independently adjustable.

Battery backup module
Strongly recommend the DEI 520T with all alarms. I don't recommend battery backup SIRENS because they are largely a pain in the ass and not nearly as effective as a well-hidden backup battery. Remember, a siren does nothing to stop your car from starting.

How to splice in sensors

When adding sensors to an alarm, you are often forced to splice them in because either the alarm doesn't have extra sensor ports, or there are extra ports but you don't have any plug connectors to use with them. When you splice them together, it's a good idea to keep the triggers isolated between each sensor. You accomplish this by way of small 1 or 3 amp diodes.

WTF is a diode?

Most people don't know this, but there is such a thing as a one-way valve for electricity. It's called... guess what... a diode. Obviously it's very important to have them pointed in the right direction. Just remember that the striped side is the ground side. Sensors use a negative ground trigger, so the stripe will always face the sensor and the non-striped side will face the alarm. With an alarm, 1 or 3 amp diodes are fine.

One example of the necessity of diodes is that on the 01+ 4 door Civics, each door has it's own trigger so that the dash lights can tell you which door is open. If you were to simply tie all three (yes there's three, don't ask) door triggers into the negative door trigger input on the alarm, any one open door would indicate all four doors on the dash. Instead branch the door trigger input off with three diodes, the stripes facing away from the alarm, and then run wires from each diode to each door trigger.

"What's the best alarm?"
There really is no "best" alarm. Basically you just choose an alarm based on your budget and priorities. Anything made/owned by DEI is a safe bet. Many of their lines have exactly the same models just with different packaging, ie Python, Viper, Clifford Matrix. Compustar makes some very long range two-way paging alarms, but I've found these to be more difficult to install for the DIYer. I've had good luck with Autopage and Shelby alarms and some others. But if you don't know what to look for on your first alarm, just get a DEI.


Modified by suspendedHatch at 4:49 PM 11/8/2006

[Kavehman]

When I went ahead and did my alarm install I did use diodes to hook up additional sensors.

I connected both the glass break and tilt sensor to the negative door trigger isolated by diodes.

Now the diodes seem to work off and on, so I got rid of the diode altogether, is there a problem with doing this ?

I mean there is no warn feature on theses sensors so why would a diode be needed ?

It makes installation a lot easier when you don't have to use diodes, is this a big no no ?

I'm not to fussed if my alarm is not accurate in regards to which sector has been triggered.

One other comment I will make is this, if people have sound systems installed, they can draw power from that by means of the power wire for the amp. I don't really see anything wrong with doing this, but maybe im wrong.

[suspendedHatch]

If you don't diode isolate the sensors from your door lock trigger, the sensors will trigger your dome light.

I would troubleshoot the diodes. There's no reason for them to work off and on. Connect one at a time until you find the problem.

What kind of alarm is it?

[Kavehman]

Mongoose M80S

Well respected in Australia and I need this type for insurance purposes.

http://www.mongoose.com.au/car...=M80S

[hondamonkey]

So you're saying that a removeable steering wheel with a lock for the hub can be bypassed easily?

[wrx-killer-Sti-eater]

Originally Posted by hondamonkey

So you're saying that a removeable steering wheel with a lock for the hub can be bypassed easily?

not bypassed just easy to get around.

[Kavehman]

One important aspect to mention with regards to sensors is that all sensors should be taking power from a sensor that is plugged into the alarm.

I have found that sensors taking power from an external source and connected to my door trigger causes my dash indicator to light up every now and then telling me my doors are open.

[suspendedHatch]

1) You have it wrong. You want to use the ground-when-armed output from the alarm, orange on DEI alarms. You can use the ground that controls the start kill relay, or the ground on the sensor. But power is power. I don't know of any alarms that have a power-when-armed.

2) This problem that you're having is because you didn't properly diode-isolate your sensor from your door trigger, just like I told you a few posts ago.

[jeremy.]

one of the biggest layers of security

[suspendedHatch]

I want one.

Not just the parking enforcement boot. I'm talking about the 3rd gen Integra too.

White though.

[wrx-killer-Sti-eater]

Originally Posted by Kavehman

One important aspect to mention with regards to sensors is that all sensors should be taking power from a sensor that is plugged into the alarm.

I have found that sensors taking power from an external source and connected to my door trigger causes my dash indicator to light up every now and then telling me my doors are open.

You really need to check your install again. There is no problem with running 12 from some other source to power you extra alarm accesories. Sounds like you have feed back from improper setup on your part.

[Kavehman]

Yeah I thought about it some more, I do need a diode.

Bare with me as I try to explain this without a diagram.

(-) Door trigger is hooked up to the dome light, and was working perfectly.

Glass break and Tilt are hooked up to this negative trigger.

SO when they trigger it sends a pulse down through the wire to the door open light in the dash.

So to fix this I need to put a diode with the stripe facing the alarm between the (-) door trigger and the connection to the car wire.

Am I correct with this, I'm not to fussed about the alarm not knowing which area has been triggered or not, just want to get the dash light to not come on.

Thanks for all of your help guys, I'm gonna fix this when the battery backup arrives so I can do it all at once.

[wrx-killer-Sti-eater]

yes you are correct now. Does your alarm have a neg trigger input? can you post install instructions please.

[Kavehman]

Thanks for replying, my alarm didn't come with any instructions, it only came with the wiring digram. I did try to find a wiring diagram but none were available to the public, and local installers would not provide any support.

Its a mongoose M80 http://www.mongoose.com.au

And I am using DEI sensors the glass break and digital tilt sensor.

The car that its all going into is a 2000 Integra Type R

But I guess I will diode isolate it and hopefully that will install the problem. Oh and yes it is a negative trigger input that I am taping into, its just that the negative trigger is also hooked up to the door trigger.

But on the bright side all the sensors work and the alarm is functioning, I'm just waiting for the battery backup to arrive before i pull the car apart again to fix this problem.

Apologies for polluting this thread, but I was thinking that my problems would be similar to others so a discussion may be helpful.

[suspendedHatch]

Each sensor needs it's own diode, just like in my diagram.

[suspendedHatch]

Hey guys, fcm, want to take a look over this before I add it in? Critique it. Hopefully there's no glaring flaws. I wrote this straight up in one sitting.

Engine Bay Start Kills
In my infinite wisdom *cough boredom... I thought up two easy start-kills that can be done under the hood with basically no cutting of your stock wiring. One is on the starter, and the other is on the ignition. Both absolutely require a SPDT auto relay. Either of them can be controlled by your alarm ground-when-armed output, or a 20+ Amp auto rocker switch like the one in the fuel pump kill example. Pick one or the other. Doing both doesn't make your car any more secure, and doesn't make you hardcore either.

The advantages to a engine bay start-kill are 1) it's downstream of the ignition harness where most hotwiring takes place, 2) it's not something your friendly neighborhood thieves have seen before. The disadvantage is that it's hard to conceal. Fook-it. Don't even bother.

These instructions most closely pertain to the 3rd gen Integra and 5th gen Civic. Other cars will vary a bit.

Starter

Supplies:
SPDT auto relay
2 18 gauge female quick disconnects
3 10 gauge female quick disconnects
1 10 gauge male quick disconnect
short piece of 18 gauge wire
some 10 gauge wire
electric tape
small diameter split loom
zip ties or metal piercing screw to mount the relay
18 gauge butt connector or soldering tools/supplies

Tools:
Channel Lock 909 crimpers
wire cutters/strippers

Prep: Determine a mounting point for your relay near the starter next to the passenger side shock tower, but don't permanently mount it yet. Estimate the length between it and the starter, leaving some room for slack wire for when the engine torques in it's mounts. At your work bench, crimp a male spade connector (aka quick disconnect) to the end of the 10 gauge wire (will go from oem starter wire to your relay). At the other end of that wire, twist it together with the end of the 18 gauge wire and crimp both wires into a female spade connector. Slip that end onto the 30 on the SPDT relay. Crimp a female spade connector to the other end of the 18 gauge wire and connect it to 85. Crimp a female spade connector at each end of a second length of 10 gauge wire (will go from your relay to your starter). Connect one end to 87a. Slip some split loom over these wires and secure it with electric tape. Back at the car, tap some 18 gauge wire to your alarm's ground-when-armed output wire (orange on DEI alarms, triggers the start kill relay) and run it behind the glovebox and out a firewall grommet*. Crimp on a female quick disconnect and connect it to the 86. Pull the black/white wire off the starter, and connect it to the male spade connector that runs to the 30. Then connect your relay's 87a wire to the starter. Make sure the engine starts with the alarm off, but doesn't start with it on (you may need to bypass your original start kill if you left it intact). Split loom the rest of the wiring and mount the relay. Secure all wires with zip ties.

*You can control this relay using a hidden kill switch instead. Compare this example to the ignition-kill to find out how.

Ignition

Supplies:
2 pin distributor plug harness
SPDT auto relay
auto rocker switch
4 18 gauge female quick disconnects
18 gauge ring terminal
2 10 gauge female quick disconnects
18 gauge wire
10 gauge wire
electric tape
small diameter split loom
zip ties or metal piercing screw to mount the relay
18 gauge butt connector or soldering tools/supplies

Tools:
Channel Lock 909 crimpers
wire cutters/strippers

The 5th gen Civic has two plugs on the distributor. The two-pin plug holds the black/yellow ignition wire and a blue wire. Go to the junkyard and get an extra male and female side of this plug connector. Plug each end into the corresponding plugs on your distributor, then solder the blue wire together. Extend each end of the black/yellow wire with some 10 gauge wire. Crimp the car side end together into a female spade connector with some 18 gauge wire and slip the connector onto 30. Then crimp a female spade connector on the other end of the 18 gauge wire and connect it to 85. Take the distributor side extended wire, crimp a female spade connector to the end, and connect it to 87a*. Connect 86 to some 18 gauge wire and run it through the firewall with a grommet to an auto rocker switch. Ground the other side of the switch using a ring terminal. Mount the switch in a hidden location. Test to make sure it works, mount the relay, then tape up and split loom all the wires, securing them with zipties. Remember, the starter will still crank, but without ignition, the engine will not turn over. Don't crank your starter continuously for more than 10 seconds.

*It will work the same whether it's connected to 87 or 87a, but 87a is better because it will allow your car to start if the switch fails.

[wrx-killer-Sti-eater]

I like the second one better, I having sucess right now on the teg's that have crank sencer on the crank. I going to test this before saying its a%100. the car will not run but its really hard to do because of how the car is.

[suspendedHatch]

Uh... huh.

I'm going to include some stuff fcm mentioned. Do you have anything you want to add to the FAQ? You said you were working on something. I'm about to do another update/revision.

[wrx-killer-Sti-eater]

soon, real soon I going thru the tegs wiring to see if its possiable to blow the driver air bag only on a theif once he gets the car rolling.

[fcm]

Originally Posted by wrx-killer-Sti eater

soon, real soon I going thru the tegs wiring to see if its possiable to blow the driver air bag only on a thief once he gets the car rolling.

that would be a "man trap", [that can injure] and that is not legal, if he is hurt he can and will get his lawyer to sue you, and even if he is convicted of car theft he will win and you will be out more then your car, and a possible conviction of setting a "man trap".

One more thing, you sure do not want it to malfunction when your behind the wheel. 94

[dash8311]

Not to jump in on your conversation, but I've just finished my kill switch - working very well! Thanks for the great write-up.

Cheers.