EMod Civic

Since the J. Thomas/Lombardo thread is back from the dead and being corrupted with new information, I thought this seemed like a good time to post some details about my electric power steering conversion that I did on my 86 Civic.

First off, I switched from the manual rack to an '89 Integra power steering rack. This does require using the Integra or a Civic sedan subframe. I then replaced the Integra rack with a rebuilt Civic sedan unit that I got for like $40 on ebay. The Civic sedan and Integra racks are identical, and are both significantly quicker than the manual rack. (3.25 turns vs 4.4). All this information is 3rd gen specific, but the rest could be applied to any car.

For the pump, I used an electric over hydraulic pump from a 2nd gen MR2. This is a really nice little pump. It only weighs about 10lbs, and is pretty compact. I picked mine up used for $50. The pump does draw a lot of current, so you need to wire it appropriately. I'm using a 100amp breaker and a generic starter relay for mine. I had a pressure hose made up at a local hydraulic shop for around $25, and the rest of the lines are just rubber hose. Here's a pic of the pump in it's new mount:




To me, power steering is a great help for autocrossing, particularly when running 9.5" slicks. With the electric pump, there are no problems with 'beating the pump' in tight turns or slaloms. It's just constant power steering at any speed. The other really nice feature is that I don't have to worry about throwing a belt at 8500rpm. I have found that the power steering has saved me quite a few times when I'm trying to catch a spin or something and before I physically couldn't move the steering quick enough, or the torque steer would rip the wheel out of my hands. Now, it just goes where I tell it to.

-Chris

fireant

wicked!

Can this be done on any model?

NoNOSgsr!

nice setup

tunes12

I've seen this in person and it is definetely a sweet little setup

Andrie Hartanto

Derek from Hondata also run this kind of setup

KIWI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie Hartanto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Derek from Hondata also run this kind of setup</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, nice set up.
Were going to use the same on the Integra's. Us old guys really need it!

Kiwi

Andrie Hartanto

I just run the mechanical one. Although I've been thinking of reverting to electrical. Just don't have time yet. Maybe I'll get it done before World Challenge weekend.

Circuit Star-29

hows the feel compared to a Civic or Integra power steering unit? I hate too much power steering...

EMod Civic

I would say it feels a little overboosted the way I'm running, but I kinda like it that way. I can pretty much palm the wheel at parking speeds like a Caddy The MR2 pump is designed to be controlled with a computer that varies the voltage to the pump based on the level of boost required. I'm running mine at full battery voltage, so it is running at max pressure/flow. At that level, it is definately stronger than a stock Honda pump. It wouldn't be too hard to build a circuit to have adjustment of the boost level, I just didn't see a need for it. I like having the ability to make huge steering corrections with one hand in case something goes wrong while I'm in the middle of a downshift.

-Chris (who may never get the car back together at the rate he's working)

dwolsten

Could you post some more pictures of your pump installation? I'd like to see how you connected the steering hoses, etc. Did you have to buy any extra adaptors, fittings, etc.? Did you reuse the factory hoses or fab new ones?

I think you'd get more power with the computer that reduces boost at higher speeds, however, since you wouldn't be wasting as much power driving the pump when it's not needed.

vwong

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dwolsten &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you'd get more power with the computer that reduces boost at higher speeds, however, since you wouldn't be wasting as much power driving the pump when it's not needed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why??? This is an electric power steering pump.

dwolsten

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vwong &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why??? This is an electric power steering pump.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So? Electric doesn't mean "free power". Why do you think your power company charges you for how much electricity you use? Electric steering may not be connected by a belt to the engine, but it still requires power, which comes from the alternator, which puts a greater mechanical load on the engine when more power is consumed.
The whole point of electric power steering is kinda similar to hybrid-electric engines: instead of driving a pump all the time with your engine, even when you're not using it (because you're driving straight, or are going fast enough that you don't need any assist), you can get power only when you need it, and the rest of the time not waste any power.

skrewdlude

Please explain how electricity adds mechanical load. The pulley never weighs more. It is still spinning at the same rate. The extra current created is just utilized instead of being wasted. If anything it might strain the electronic system by stealing current, but I doubt that.

nfn15037

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skrewdlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Please explain how electricity adds mechanical load. The pulley never weighs more. It is still spinning at the same rate. The extra current created is just utilized instead of being wasted. If anything it might strain the electronic system by stealing current, but I doubt that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

When you ask for more curent from the alternator, it gets harder to spin. Hence more parasitic drag on the motor.

EMod Civic

Exactly. With no electrical load, the alternator takes very little energy to turn. The more load, the more power it takes, but only up to the capacity of the alternator. In my case, the alternator is a 45amp unit, so at a nominal 12 volts, this alternator produces 540 watts of power, or approximately 3/4 of a horsepower. I'm not sure how efficient it is, but I would guess that it takes around 1hp input to get 3/4 output.

The electric pump can draw up to 70 amps, so at peak load, it is drawing more than the alternator is providing, so the battery acts as a balast and provides the extra power. Most of the time, the pump is operating under far less than peak load, so all it is pushing against is the friction in the hoses and it's path through the steering rack, so there isn't much load when you aren't steering anyway.

From a practical sense, I had to set my idle at about 1700 with no electrical load to get it to idle at 1200 with the radiator fan and the PS pump running, but I'm running ITBs with no idle control valve or other devices to compensate the idle like a stock car would have.

I will post a few more pictures in a week or so after I put it back together. I finally have enough of the parts to be able to drop the new drivetrain in and start putting things back together.

-Chris

petershen

this is really great info..

i've been looking around for electric power steering pumps.. the current toyota MR-S has an electric pump, but it's a huge SOB

your setup looks awesome.. more pics please!

Kouki-EK9

That sounds like a pretty sweet setup. I'd also like to see more pics.

rsx664

I know this is an OLD thread, but I am currently doing this mod, but I can't find a relay to work. I keep burning them up after about 10 minutes of driving(light load). What relay are you using?? I got a starter relay from an old Chevy(heavy duty relay) but it isn't designed to be closed all the time, it is only designed to be closed momentarily so that's why it's burning up.

EMod Civic

I'm just using a typical auto parts store 'starter relay.' Nothing fancy. Since my application is an autocross car, I rarely ever run the pump for more than a minute at a time, but I have run it when testing it for over 10 minutes without a problem. It seems like I remember reading in the MR2 forums that people were regularly replacing the OE Toyota relay with a standard starter relay when the Toyota one failed, and those were on street cars where the pump would run continuously. Maybe the brand you're using isn't as good? I'm sure I got mine at either Advance Auto or maybe NAPA. The only other thing I can think of is the size of the wiring you used. These pumps can draw 90amps, so if you don't have large enough wiring, everything is going to get hot. I'm running 2 gauge stereo amp wire.

Another option for a relay would be one made for high powered stereo systems. I looked at these, but they are more expensive than the starter relays. They do make some amp relays that can hold 100 amps and are designed to run continuously in the closed position.

-Chris

ITRacer121

can you post some more pictures of this set up?

EMod Civic

Anything in particular you want to see a pic of? There really isn't much to see. The pic at the top shows the size of the pump. It has a suction line that you can see near the bottom right side, and a pressure fitting just in front of that line. I had a hydraulic hose made up to go from the pump to the rack. The return from the rack goes to a small tank, and a short hose goes from the tank to the pump. It's all hard to see now with all the hoses and other parts in the area. The electric side is a big power cable going through a 100 amp breaker, then a starter relay, then to the pump.

-Chris

ITRacer121

maybe I am just confused as to where int the engine bay it is? I was thinking the fire wall but that looks like a wheel well but then again there is no proportioning valve in the wheel well?
&lt;-just confused sorry...
also I would be worried about feed back from the car with a setup like this

ShaunRR

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought you were adapting an electric power steering rack from the EP3 Civic lol.

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rochesterricer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought you were adapting an electric power steering rack from the EP3 Civic lol.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe he got the idea there, but from personal experience I know that you <u>can</u> defeat the power steering in an EP3 Si. He might not know it, but it's good that he did not base his system on that one.

I have not seen UK drivers complain about the EP3 CTR the way US drivers complained about the EP3 Si, but I haven't found any information to suggest that the systems are different.

I want to thank Chris Raglin for his innovation and thank him for sharing it with us.

DB2-R81

George,

It was done on a number of EP auto cross cars before Chris did it.