potatostix

From what I've come up with searching, I haven't seen anything about subframe tearout with EG's, everything has been EK. The EK has the mounting holes outside of the LCA holes, while EG/DC has them inside of them. Would this make the EG/DC stronger? Also, is there any difference in the EG/DC versus ITR subframe? I've read about them being a thicker metal but I'm looking for solid evidence. On one hand I don't see it being worth it for honda to make a different subframe for the car, but then on the other it's more of a factory racer so I could also see them doing this.

Just something that's been on my mind for awhile, wondering if I'm making any sense with it.

Spoon-EK9

Yeah, ITR and CTR subframes are stronger than any other models'. So basically the subframe on EG and other DC will tear out. I think that's why the chassi code is different in each model.

but i would like to know for sure so bump bump

slammed_93_hatch

the ITR is the only subframe i am aware of having the bracing, i have seen documentation and have actually looked at it.

Im going to asume that the CTR also has it, but i don't know for sure.


The EG, EK, and all non-itr DC's can suffer from tear out problems.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

The EK is definenlty MORE prone to tearout than the EG/DC. Like you said it is because the swaybar mounts on the outside of the LCA bolt (since EK LCAs are longer). I, personally have seen several photos of EGs with torn subframes on this forum. I can't exactly tell you wear to search, but it does happen...

If your going 22mm+, reinforcment is good insurance...

DEIVIONCRX

what kinda reienforcment do you suggest, cuz the Beaks kit looks like its just a gimic and wouldnt help anything

you speak more about something like the ASR or the Comptech Style Bracing?

Erik95LS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DEIVIONCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you speak more about something like the ASR or the Comptech Style Bracing?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Either would be more than sufficient.

Voyage34

^ yeah ive never heard of a case of frame tearout with either brace in there

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

I would perfer the ASR brace if my car didn't have ABS, since it's slightly cheaper & slightly stronger. The comptech one would be a little nicer if you do have ABS since it has special grooves for routing the ABS wires.

These are the best options in my opinion...

Erik95LS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would perfer the ASR brace if my car didn't have ABS, since it's slightly cheaper & slightly stronger.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats debatable. Either is way more than up to the task of anything you oculd throw at it.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats debatable..</TD></TR></TABLE>

No it's not...

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1399315

B bOy CrAyOn

first time i heard of this so could u guys explain to me what a subframe tear out is?

Voyage34

Subfram tearout is exactly that- where the subframe (where your rear LCAs and sway bar mount to) is put under heavy stress from a large sway bar and tears. Its a common problem on EK civics because Honda placed the sway bar mounting holes outboard of the LCA mounts, and used very thin sheetmetal in that area. Its also a pretty damn expensive fix. It looks something like this...

B bOy CrAyOn

holy crap ive never seen that before.... so to prevent this from happening u should use a good tie bar like ASR or Comptech? and this only happens when u have a thick sway bar, correct?

Voyage34

yes, on EK civ's reinforcement is generally recommended on 19mm rear bar or larger. 19 you can probably get away with a beaks kit, but for a 22mm like the ITR bar, I wouldnt run without an asr or comptech. A dedicated Tie Bar wont do much to prevent that as it only stiffens the distance between the lcas and doesnt do anything to strengthen the areas the sway bars attach (there is one in the picture with the tearout). But kits like the comptech or asr are specifically designed to absorb the energy from the rsb and distribute it evenly across the subframe to prevent such mishaps.

Actually my ASR just arrived today so I wont run that large of a bar without an ASR

Erik95LS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No it's not...

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1399315</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats the very inconclusive thread I was refering to. So as I said, its debatable.

Tomek

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B bOy CrAyOn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">holy crap ive never seen that before.... so to prevent this from happening u should use a good tie bar like ASR or Comptech? and this only happens when u have a thick sway bar, correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

thick rear sway + low rear spring rates will increase the risk of a tearout. In addition to a subframe reinforcement kit you'll want to run some stiffer spring rates.

ej0513

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tomek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thick rear sway + low rear spring rates will increase the risk of a tearout. In addition to a subframe reinforcement kit you'll want to run some stiffer spring rates. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i think it has more to do with the length of the shock motion. the longer the motion the more the sway bar can twist on the subframe.. so having stiffer springs wont help much.. it be more along the lines of shorter dampers i.e. coilovers..
but either way.. go get the ASR or Comptech and all your problems will be solved.

slammed_93_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ej0513 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i think it has more to do with the length of the shock motion. the longer the motion the more the sway bar can twist on the subframe.. so having stiffer springs wont help much.. it be more along the lines of shorter dampers i.e. coilovers..
but either way.. go get the ASR or Comptech and all your problems will be solved. </TD></TR></TABLE>


erick you just agreed with him with out knowing. shock motion or the amount the shock travel is directly related to the spring rate you run, (for a given car).

most coilover setups run fairly high spring rates, so in turn they can run limited amount of shock travel

ej0513

Jimmy, i see what your saying.. but what about lower cost coilovers that use more streetable rates? for example, the Tein SS uses a shorter shock and a reasonable "street" spring rate.

slammed_93_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ej0513 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jimmy, i see what your saying.. but what about lower cost coilovers that use more streetable rates? for example, the Tein SS uses a shorter shock and a reasonable "street" spring rate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

shorter shocks, and shock travel are two different things.


you can shorten a shock boddy, to some degree with no real ill effects. but once you get to a certian point the length of the bodie and the shock travel start to have a corralation.

I miss-understood what you said when you said "shock travel", if you were talking about shock body length then yes you are correct, but at some point like i said above it will as some point come into effect.

on a very OT subject. the coilover that just lower ride hight by the bottom shock body, greatly reduce your over all droop, which for preformance is good.

ej0513

^ ok cool, we are on the same page

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No it's not...

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1399315</TD></TR></TABLE>

do you still believe that thread and those pics and that "analysis" proves anything?

Design

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tomek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thick rear sway + low rear spring rates will increase the risk of a tearout. In addition to a subframe reinforcement kit you'll want to run some stiffer spring rates. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. This was done with the Comptech ARB and reinforcement kit. I've asked that Jimmy come over and post the details in a new thread.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

do you still believe that thread and those pics and that "analysis" proves anything?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess I just fell for the hype of page one. After reading the rest, I see your point...

sockvtec

so if i was to get a itr rear sway for my hatch, i couldnt use my 'ebay' rear tie bar cause its shitty and will rip my subframe?

btw i have omni lca's and the full coilovers...so stiffness is good? but low ride height is bad?