Honda and Acura Model Specific Forums

PAC_MAN · 12-21-2005, 10:36 AM

im thinking of getting itb's

how much of a pain is it to upgrade to itb set up?
can you do it without upgrading your internals?
how much hp gain?
twm vs. toda, how much?? and what are the differences?
are they pretty stable, reliabilty wise.

i currently have:

mugen intake kit
toda headers
toda flywheel
toda clutch
mugen exhaust

can anyone list what mods i would need?
as much as possible i dont want to upgrade my internals that why im wondering if it can be done.

thanks for your time

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papa5murf · 12-21-2005, 10:39 AM

you'll want an AEM EMS or some other higher form of tuning.... so you can tune those ITB's... they aren't easy to tune.. and they are very loud for street driving....

you won't get much power out of it either... but it is bling..

Francesco · 12-21-2005, 10:41 AM

ITB's are mostly bling...

get AEM EMS to tune them...

Before you buy them, make sure you have a tuner who you trust.

they really arn't any good unless you have a nice all motor setup to compliment them. if not you won't see much power gain at all...

Luder94 · 12-21-2005, 11:37 AM

I thought there were a few people with ITB's that with proper dyno tuning and mapping were able to extract 40+ hp at peak on F20c's. Wasn't there one owner that got 60+hp out of his ITB setup?

papa5murf · 12-21-2005, 11:57 AM

^ haven't seen those numbers.....

the car that's seen the most out of the itb setup that i know of is matt (local guy) whites2000@16 of s2ki....but he's got a 2.5L stroker also... i haven't seen anyone else top his hp numbers NA.

c17r15 · 12-21-2005, 12:24 PM

not just for bling.

its for RESPONSE and optimum air flow at ANY RPM.

c17r15 · 12-21-2005, 12:27 PM

not to mention POWAH!

now add a good exhaust manifold and a good exhaust and you'll be breaking 240whp.

papa5murf · 12-21-2005, 12:30 PM

the amount of money spent on ITB's doesn't warrant the power gained tho... but if you want people to gawk at the car.. it's PIMP... lol

PAC_MAN · 12-21-2005, 01:36 PM

thanks for all the replies guys. im really interested on getting them. still waiting for answers for these q's:

how much of a pain is it to upgrade to itb set up?
can you do it without upgrading your internals?
twm vs. toda, how much?? and what are the differences?
are they pretty stable, reliabilty wise.

also someone mentioned that its loud, how loud is it. does it sound like a car without a header. too loud for the street?? so loud enough to get pulled over. i mean is it loud but it sounds nice. can someone elaborate pls.

c17r15 · 12-21-2005, 02:04 PM

its not a pain to upgrade, just expensive.

you can do it without upgrading your internals.

TWM is cheaper and have customer support in the US which is a huge plus, also have different sizes and lengths. TODA sports injection kit comes in one size only, cost more and if you run into trouble you're shit out of luck.

They are realiable, drivability will not differ if tuned correctly.

it is not too loud for the streets nor is it enough to get pulled over for. Intake sound is different from an exhaust sound. Just imagine a louder intake.

papa5murf · 12-21-2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAC_MAN

how much of a pain is it to upgrade to itb set up?
can you do it without upgrading your internals?
twm vs. toda, how much?? and what are the differences?
are they pretty stable, reliabilty wise.

1. it's not a pain to upgrade to one.. it's just a pain for tuning..
2. you don't need to upgrade your internals... you might want to upgrade some of the fuel components on your car.. cause you will be bringing in a lot more air.. so you need more fuel to compensate and mix with it...
3. dunno about price... toda is really hard to get ahold of...
4. they are pretty stable, and they can be reliable if you get it tuned properly...

loud:.. yes it's very loud... but that will vary from person to person depending on what you consider loud.. if your state has issues with cops and modded cars.. you might run into some trouble..

97ShLude · 12-21-2005, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c17r15

not just for bling.

its for RESPONSE and optimum air flow at ANY RPM.

I would be willing to bet that most of those gains were from the EMS and tuning and not so much the ITB's. But you can't measure/indicate the change in throttle response......

PAC_MAN · 12-21-2005, 04:23 PM

thanks to everyone. im going to pick up the twm itbs sometime after xmas. i never posted a pic of my car here, i will as soon as i get it done.

- jacob

s2kkk · 12-21-2005, 08:30 PM

ITB+F20/F22=Waste of money.

Francesco · 12-21-2005, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoon.eg

ITB+F20/F22=Waste of money.

for shows, no...

for daily driver, yes...

for all motor setup, no...

bryant · 12-21-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoon.eg

ITB+F20/F22=Waste of money.

IYO

Thats the nice thing about owning our own cars, we can do what ever we want to them. If I wanted to drive off a cliff and land on your car that would be my choice.

In the end, everything is a waste of money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francesco

ITB's are mostly bling...

get AEM EMS to tune them...

Before you buy them, make sure you have a tuner who you trust.

they really aren't any good unless you have a nice all motor setup to compliment them. if not you won't see much power gain at all...

ITB's are not bling. They're functional. They're not just for adding higher horsepower numbers, but for adding better throttle response as well.

Yes, some sort of aftermarket engine management is going to be needed to tune them. The AEM EMS is recommended but there are other options.

They are known to be hard to tune, but not impossible. All the guys I know with them have their setup working fine and it wasnt as hard as everyone makes it seem.

The S2000 comes very well built from the factory and is a great all motor setup. Adding other mods like a better flowing exhaust system is only going to help with response and power that you already have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by c17r15

it is not too loud for the streets nor is it enough to get pulled over for. Intake sound is different from an exhaust sound. Just imagine a louder intake.

Yep, with his mugen exhaust he will be just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAC_MAN

thanks to everyone. im going to pick up the twm itbs sometime after xmas. i never posted a pic of my car here, i will as soon as i get it done.

- jacob

Please do. A movie would be even better if possible.

B_CRUZ! · 12-21-2005, 11:15 PM

hey PAC_MAN, here is a vid of PACMAN.

http://videos.streetfire.net/P...0&p=3

t0ekn3e · 12-21-2005, 11:17 PM

pacman s2k is sickk

PAC_MAN · 12-22-2005, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryant

IYO

Thats the nice thing about owning our own cars, we can do what ever we want to them. If I wanted to drive off a cliff and land on your car that would be my choice.

In the end, everything is a waste of money.

ITB's are not bling. They're functional. They're not just for adding higher horsepower numbers, but for adding better throttle response as well.

Yes, some sort of aftermarket engine management is going to be needed to tune them. The AEM EMS is recommended but there are other options.

They are known to be hard to tune, but not impossible. All the guys I know with them have their setup working fine and it wasnt as hard as everyone makes it seem.

The S2000 comes very well built from the factory and is a great all motor setup. Adding other mods like a better flowing exhaust system is only going to help with response and power that you already have.

Yep, with his mugen exhaust he will be just fine.

Please do. A movie would be even better if possible.

no prob, i will as soon as i get it, thanks for everyones replies once again.

or

really helped me decide. btw that vid was pretty sick. makes me wanna get it now.

-NA-aLL-thE-wAy- · 12-22-2005, 12:43 PM

I <3 ITB's. Isn't there a guy on here that has some? The one with the NSX wheels?

CLOUT · 12-22-2005, 02:49 PM

another alternative to ITB's would be the new full race manifold coming out.
just shooting that out there because i thought i was fully set on Individual's but seeing how the full race manifold makes decent power and tuning shouldnt be as hard as individual's, you might want to think about it.

price is around $1300 for the FULLRACE manifold, and their products are known to perform very well. for hayward individuals, your looking at $2700.

good luck with itb's if you go that route, who knows i might still head that way as well.

for art's s2k, that is the OG s2k on individual's and my exhaust

s2kkk · 12-24-2005, 10:12 AM

BOOST

PAC_MAN · 12-26-2005, 10:47 AM

no thanks

SiBirdie · 12-26-2005, 01:44 PM

Full-Race intake manifold looks like a well built design but it will not perform up to par with ITB that is set up correctly. ITB's are very diffcult to tune correctly that's why you dont see much gains from them. The throttle responde on ITB is like a motorcycle which no intake manifold can provide.

It depend on your taste and what do you prefer. But in the end it really depend how fat your wallet is. A well tune ITB set up with EMS system will run you close to 4-5g's.

Good luck

I opt for boost too! hahah

kalm_traveler · 12-09-2007, 04:15 PM

I'm definitely going to go this route as well but I still have some questions about it (even after reading Honda Tuning's article where they added a home-made ITB setup to some EF d-series car).

In states where all we have are safety and emissions (which is literally just what the tailpipe puffs out) can the AEM EMS be tuned to still pass emissions?

I mean... it's not a huge amount of work to swap the IM and ECU once a year I guess, but would definitely be preferably avoided if possible...

Also, I've seen a number of people who create a box of sorts around the ITB's so as to be able to use a CAI-type pipe with filter. Obviously this would slightly reduce the HP gains, but throttle response is still significantly higher than with a single TB/manifold design... any ideas on how one would go about making one of these?

12-21-2005, 10:39 AM	#2
papa5murf Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 9,128	Re: s2000 itb's (PAC_MAN) you'll want an AEM EMS or some other higher form of tuning.... so you can tune those ITB's... they aren't easy to tune.. and they are very loud for street driving.... you won't get much power out of it either... but it is bling..

12-21-2005, 10:41 AM	#3
Francesco Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: never never land Posts: 6,006	Re: s2000 itb's (papa5murf) ITB's are mostly bling... get AEM EMS to tune them... Before you buy them, make sure you have a tuner who you trust. they really arn't any good unless you have a nice all motor setup to compliment them. if not you won't see much power gain at all... __________________ - 05 Amuse s2000. Facebook!

12-21-2005, 11:37 AM	#4
Luder94 Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Stuck in Snow, UMW, Yo Mama Posts: 1,523	Re: s2000 itb's (papa5murf) I thought there were a few people with ITB's that with proper dyno tuning and mapping were able to extract 40+ hp at peak on F20c's. Wasn't there one owner that got 60+hp out of his ITB setup? __________________ Said goodbye to a great build: http://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2286061

12-21-2005, 11:57 AM	#5
papa5murf Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 9,128	Re: s2000 itb's (Luder94) ^ haven't seen those numbers..... the car that's seen the most out of the itb setup that i know of is matt (local guy) whites2000@16 of s2ki....but he's got a 2.5L stroker also... i haven't seen anyone else top his hp numbers NA.

12-21-2005, 12:24 PM	#6
c17r15 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: atlanta, ga, usa Posts: 153	Re: s2000 itb's (Francesco) not just for bling. its for RESPONSE and optimum air flow at ANY RPM.

12-21-2005, 12:27 PM	#7
c17r15 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: atlanta, ga, usa Posts: 153	Re: s2000 itb's (c17r15) not to mention POWAH! now add a good exhaust manifold and a good exhaust and you'll be breaking 240whp.

12-21-2005, 12:30 PM	#8
papa5murf Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 9,128	Re: s2000 itb's (c17r15) the amount of money spent on ITB's doesn't warrant the power gained tho... but if you want people to gawk at the car.. it's PIMP... lol

12-21-2005, 01:36 PM	#9
PAC_MAN Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: SEATTLE, WA, USA Posts: 70	Re: s2000 itb's (papa5murf) thanks for all the replies guys. im really interested on getting them. still waiting for answers for these q's: how much of a pain is it to upgrade to itb set up? can you do it without upgrading your internals? twm vs. toda, how much?? and what are the differences? are they pretty stable, reliabilty wise. also someone mentioned that its loud, how loud is it. does it sound like a car without a header. too loud for the street?? so loud enough to get pulled over. i mean is it loud but it sounds nice. can someone elaborate pls. __________________ 2003 SPA - SOLD 2002 BERLINA BLACK - CURRENT

12-21-2005, 02:04 PM	#10
c17r15 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: atlanta, ga, usa Posts: 153	Re: s2000 itb's (PAC_MAN) its not a pain to upgrade, just expensive. you can do it without upgrading your internals. TWM is cheaper and have customer support in the US which is a huge plus, also have different sizes and lengths. TODA sports injection kit comes in one size only, cost more and if you run into trouble you're shit out of luck. They are realiable, drivability will not differ if tuned correctly. it is not too loud for the streets nor is it enough to get pulled over for. Intake sound is different from an exhaust sound. Just imagine a louder intake.

12-21-2005, 04:23 PM	#13
PAC_MAN Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: SEATTLE, WA, USA Posts: 70	Re: s2000 itb's (97ShLude) thanks to everyone. im going to pick up the twm itbs sometime after xmas. i never posted a pic of my car here, i will as soon as i get it done. - jacob __________________ 2003 SPA - SOLD 2002 BERLINA BLACK - CURRENT

12-21-2005, 08:30 PM	#14
s2kkk Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 1,044	ITB+F20/F22=Waste of money. __________________ Boosted - 4/18/05 - Tuned - 6/13/05 - Sold - 8/8/05 http://images.honda-tech.com/set1/smile/emsad.gif Thats right bitches, sold not stolen. EH2. Stock B16 w/CTR cams 325WHP@10PSI 12.0@114MPH - SOLD AP1 GPW. Amuse CF Lip, OEM Black Wheels, Lowered on Eibachs - TOTALED Current - 2006 Laser Red/Graphite G35 Coupe 6MT. Premium package, Navigation package, Aero package, Luff M1 Comp. Gold 8.5x20F 10.5x20R, Tinted, Lowered, JDM Yellow fog light bulbs.

12-21-2005, 11:15 PM	#17
B_CRUZ! OG triple OG. Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: CALIFORNIA Posts: 15,384	Re: s2000 itb's (PAC_MAN) hey PAC_MAN, here is a vid of PACMAN. http://videos.streetfire.net/P...0&p=3 __________________ FOR SALE: NOR CAL 94 DOHC DEL SOL BNIB MOMO Monte Carlo + NRG quick release v.2 & short hub

12-21-2005, 11:17 PM	#18
t0ekn3e Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: City of Sharks Posts: 11,449	pacman s2k is sickk __________________ All Show,Super Slow // <FONT COLOR="Red">PHUC DAT BICH PERFORMANCE</FONT> // VEE Squad!

12-22-2005, 12:43 PM	#20
-NA-aLL-thE-wAy- EFSS153 2007 Acura RDX My Garage Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tornado Alley Posts: 13,892	Re: (PAC_MAN) I <3 ITB's. Isn't there a guy on here that has some? The one with the NSX wheels? __________________ "I went to the theatre with the author of a successful play. He insisted on explaining everything. He told me what to watch, the details of the direction, the errors of the property man, the foibles of the star. He anticipated all of my surprises and ruined the evening. Never again! And mark you, the greatest author of all made no such mistake." — Christopher Morley Imago Dei Part Out: 1991 Civic Wagon FS: Black BDL Industries K Series Fuel Rail

12-22-2005, 02:49 PM	#21
CLOUT Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: so cal Posts: 2,958	Re: (NAallTheWAY) another alternative to ITB's would be the new full race manifold coming out. just shooting that out there because i thought i was fully set on Individual's but seeing how the full race manifold makes decent power and tuning shouldnt be as hard as individual's, you might want to think about it. price is around $1300 for the FULLRACE manifold, and their products are known to perform very well. for hayward individuals, your looking at $2700. good luck with itb's if you go that route, who knows i might still head that way as well. for art's s2k, that is the OG s2k on individual's and my exhaust __________________ FreshDrive since 2002 <U>AutoLink / Evasive / D.T</U> MUGEN S2K

12-24-2005, 10:12 AM	#22
s2kkk Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 1,044	BOOST __________________ Boosted - 4/18/05 - Tuned - 6/13/05 - Sold - 8/8/05 http://images.honda-tech.com/set1/smile/emsad.gif Thats right bitches, sold not stolen. EH2. Stock B16 w/CTR cams 325WHP@10PSI 12.0@114MPH - SOLD AP1 GPW. Amuse CF Lip, OEM Black Wheels, Lowered on Eibachs - TOTALED Current - 2006 Laser Red/Graphite G35 Coupe 6MT. Premium package, Navigation package, Aero package, Luff M1 Comp. Gold 8.5x20F 10.5x20R, Tinted, Lowered, JDM Yellow fog light bulbs.

12-26-2005, 10:47 AM	#23
PAC_MAN Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: SEATTLE, WA, USA Posts: 70	Re: (spoon.eg) no thanks __________________ 2003 SPA - SOLD 2002 BERLINA BLACK - CURRENT

12-26-2005, 01:44 PM	#24
SiBirdie Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: San Grabiel Valley, South Cali, USA Posts: 1,121	Re: (PAC_MAN) Full-Race intake manifold looks like a well built design but it will not perform up to par with ITB that is set up correctly. ITB's are very diffcult to tune correctly that's why you dont see much gains from them. The throttle responde on ITB is like a motorcycle which no intake manifold can provide. It depend on your taste and what do you prefer. But in the end it really depend how fat your wallet is. A well tune ITB set up with EMS system will run you close to 4-5g's. Good luck I opt for boost too! hahah

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