SMSP

In the first catalytic converter testing (https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1128725) that Jim Justice did for me, Jim got the following results

Test conditions were Temp. 62.2-62.5F, Humidity 31.6-32.0%, Bar. 29.74

Cat Flow (CFM) @28" and Increase/Decrease in Flow wrt the Carsound 93506

Adapter-Baseline 506 cfm +53.8%
Carsound 93506 400 Cell Ceramic Substrate 329 cfm -------
Challenger 300 Cell Ceramic Substrate 353 cfm +7.3%
Spun Body 400 Cell Ceramic Substrate 336 cfm +2.1%
Spun Body 300 Cell Metal Substrate 365 cfm +10.9%

With those results I started to offer the Spun body 300 cell cat around the first of the year. However, I’ve had a handful of these that have ended up with burned out matting and/or throwing some CELs in OBDII applications even though they are OBDII compliant, but the majority of them are performing as intended. Therefore to be safe, it’s back to the tried and true Carsound 93506 for 2-1/2” 17” long OBDII applications.

I’ve been giving the manufacturer of these 300 cell spun body cats all the flow and sniff test data I get from my customers as well as any failed cats. They are currently producing a new version of this cat with a different matting material to withstand higher temperatures. I hope to be getting some of these to test shortly.

In the mean time I’ve been looking at alternatives with high flow capabilities. One of these is a 200 cell metal substrate cat (from a different manufacturer) in a spun body without any matting. The body is formed around the substrate to seal and hold it in place. So there is no chance of the substrate coming loose. These have also been tested for OBDII compliance and passed. But OBDII compliance performance on a regular street car and some of these VTEC engines seems to net different results. So, we’ll only know for sure after some on the road and track testing is performed.

I sent this 200 cell cat up to Jim Justice along with another spun body 300 cell, as the reference, for flow testing. This is what Jim recorded.

Test Conditions: Ambient 83.3°, Wet bulb 74.8°F, Dew 71.9°F, Humidity 69%,
Barometer 30.00, Density Altitude 2175’

Spun Body 300 Cell Metal Substrate 374 cfm (ave of both directions) within 2% of the test
Spun Body 200 Cell Metal Substrate 446 cfm (ave of both directions) a 19.3% increase in flow

Due to the construction of this 200 cell cat (no matting) I’m very certain that a loose substrate should never be a problem. I will therefore offer this cat for OBDI applications only at this point. I will build it in an OBDII application only if the customer assumes the risk of a CEL. I won’t advertise it on my web site for OBDII applications until further tests are performed.

Tbone has a 3” version of this 200 cell cat now to test so hopefully we’ll see some actual whp gains over his 3” Carsound.

I’d like to publicly say thanks to Jim Justice, yet again, for doing these tests for me. It allows you guys to get data on these cats to make informed decisions.

P.S. For those who have been trying to get a hold of me, I was closed from 7/20-7/27 and since about 1am on the 27th I’ve been battling a stomach infection/food poisoning and the above typing in the most I’ve done in 1-1/2 weeks.

BERT-O

wow, awesome

Bert who's subscribin' that someday FL will be the next state to have emission check periodicly.

TheGSRGuy

Thanks for the info, Dave. Please get a hold of me regarding my second failed cat. Wasn't aware you were closed and sick so I apologize for being pesty.

BTW, my AF ratio is being shown as right around 14.1...finally had it tested. So it's not a lean and/or rich condition from my engine blowing out the cats as some of us had suspected.

strsi

uh, not good news since I just bough the 300 metal substrate cat from u. This is the first cat I've had on my car for a while. So I've never had to deal with one burning up on me. Like u said, many are doing well but some are burning up. So that said, how would I know if it has burnt up & will this hurt the power or anything else?

Thanks

TheGSRGuy

*if* it burns up (not all of them have, just a few), you'll get a CEL for catalyst being below threshhold, or possibly even rear O2 sensor.

strsi

the problem is Im obd1 so I have no rear o2 sensor. Will I hear it rattleing around or something? Will this cause anyother problems?

I understand its not all of them, but I just want to know what to look or listen for in case it does burn up on me.

Thanks

TheGSRGuy

When my matting disintegrated, the catalyst stayed in one piece but was rattling around inside the cat.

I'd hold tight for the redesign if you do want this type of cat. If you'd prefer to be safe, and sacrifice a bit of power, go for the Carsound.

(as it is the manufacturer of these spun body cats is still unknown)

strsi

Thanks, thats what i figured, but wasn't sure.

I personally dont care about emissions, I only have it cuz if a cop sees u without one in CA then u get a $2000 ticket. This is why I got the highest flowing one. Although now it appears the 200 cell one is even better, but I wont spend the money on that one unless I need to.

If it breaks appart wouldn't it be easy to just pull out the parts & then ur fine again, unless ur trying to pass smog?

TheGSRGuy

Short of jamming a screwdriver into the cat, the catalyst won't come out very easily.

I'd just recommend being safe and getting the Carsound.

TheGSRGuy

Bump...to make sure others read this!

Still haven't heard from you, Dave...not sure if you're still playing catch up.

SMSP

Here's a pic of the 200 cell spun body cat on Jim Justice's flow bench, with the old style 300 cell spun body in the background.



Here is the new 300 cell spun body with a different body and new hi temp (2200 degree) matting.

Surubasi00

that looks awesome...

What is the flow compared to? i don't think i saw a baseline

Dave

TheGSRGuy

Me is currently running the 200-cell on an OBD2a car with no CELs (kept vaporizing the matting on the old style 300-cell).

200-cell is definitely louder, FYI.

SMSP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Surubasi00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that looks awesome...

What is the flow compared to? i don't think i saw a baseline

Dave</TD></TR></TABLE>


From the first test

Adapter-Baseline 506 cfm +53.8%
Carsound 93506 400 Cell Ceramic Substrate 329 cfm -------
Challenger 300 Cell Ceramic Substrate 353 cfm +7.3%
Spun Body 400 Cell Ceramic Substrate 336 cfm +2.1%
Spun Body 300 Cell Metal Substrate 365 cfm +10.9%

From the second test

Spun Body 300 Cell Metal Substrate 374 cfm (ave of both directions) within 2% of the first test
Spun Body 200 Cell Metal Substrate 446 cfm (ave of both directions) a 19.3% increase in flow compared to the 300 cell metal substrate or 35.6% increase versus the Carsound 93506.

strsi

wow, that 200 cell is really impressive. dam, I wish i waited another month before buying my 300.

how long is the new 200 compared to the old 300. Its hard to compare the 2 in the pic since the 200 is hooked up to the flow bench, but it looks like the 200 is a little longer then the 300 or is it just me?

TheGSRGuy

Dave builds the cat to order, so the length will be for whatever application you desire.

strsi

yea I had him build me a cat/flex pipe all welded together with flanges for my rmf header. obviously it was longer then the stock cat so i had to cut my exhaust shorter to make it all fit up nicely.

however if my 300 cell burns up I'd like to replace it with the 200. So I'd just cut out the 300 from my setup & weld in the 200.
but if the 200 is longer then I'll have to cut my exhaust even shorter.


Thats it on the right.

TheGSRGuy

Just wanted to add that after two weeks of repeated WOT runs on mountain roads, my 200-cell is doing fine with no CELs or funky smells.

nholmes

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheGSRGuy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just wanted to add that after two weeks of repeated WOT runs on mountain roads, my 200-cell is doing fine with no CELs or funky smells.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sick!

Germpeel

I would also like to know how things are going Dave. I pmed you, about my cat. Id like to try these new 200-cells, please call me, you have my number.

SloCivicHMM

PM'd you, I need one of these to pass emissions...

-NA-H22A

wow these spun cats seem amazing. Now on the smog side of this cat, how well does it work cutting emmisions? I'm a noob to the smog world, but curious, and am in the market. CA smog sucks!

SMSP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by -NA-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow these spun cats seem amazing. Now on the smog side of this cat, how well does it work cutting emmisions? I'm a noob to the smog world, but curious, and am in the market. CA smog sucks! </TD></TR></TABLE>

None of these cats are CARB approved. They are 49 state obdii compliant however, I usually don't recommend them for obdii applications since a couple of customers have thrown CELs with the 300 cell cat. TheGSRGuy has a 200 cell cat in an obdii GSR and hasn't gotten a code since late summer. Carsound makes a CARB legal cat, it's the 43*** series. I don't sell alot of them since the price is much higher.

-NA-H22A

well this would be for an obd1 setup I can get past a visual for smog just need to pass the sniffer.

SMSP

I can't remember if anyone has contacted me about not passing a sniff test with a 200 or 300 cell cat.