Gemini Project: Mid engine RWD H22 Turbo Del Sol

[WhiteSol]

*** Update as of Nov. 18th *** The Del Sol is mothballed until I can re-focus on the project. I was finding it hard to keep motivated - too many false restarts, and difficulty building the momentum required to complete it.

This is by no means the end of the project, it will be back and hopefully better than before. I have appreciated everyone's continued interest and kind words.


-Scott
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Index:
Page 2) Transmission cable link assembly
Page 4) Scoop design - molds - Carbon fibre prototype
Page 6) Monster radiator mock-up, Turbo block, twin engine mock-up, wiring harness start
Page 10) Rear engine removal, rear engine bay temporary firewall
Page 14) Riced out and Rollin'
Page 16) Dual Engine Math - Warning those with ADD might stop reading here (I am also not liable for any brain trauma that may result)
Page 19) Brake Booster Kung-Fu - The "Legend" continues
Page 25) Back to work - Twin H's on the way!
Page 29) Caged in - Roll bar construction begins instead
Page 30) Simple swap - Front motor in, fuel and coolant lines on
Page 32 & 34) Rice removal - 4 wheel 5 lug conversion finished, turbo manifold production begins here and completes here
Page 35) Sump'n new - fuel tank modification
Page 38) Twin H22's - final fab begins, down-pipe and exhaust
Page 39) Shifty business - new shifter, solid linkages
Page 40) Rear Mount Intercooler and Air box
Page 41) RMIC - Charge pipes


Hello all!
I wanted to share my Mid engine Del Sol project car with the H-T community. I've spent countless hours reading threads (mostly for technical info) on here I thought I might as well give something back. Any questions or comments would be appreciated.

Project Beginnings
Since the first time I read about the Top Fuel Del Sol featured in Superstreet magazine I was fascinated by the rear engine swap. I had recently purchased a Del Sol and was preparing to put a turbo H22 motor under the hood. Preparation took over a year but in May 2004 I swapped out the D16Z6 for my fully built, turbocharged H22a4. The car hauled ass, but tuning, traction and suspension issues left much to be desired. So beginning in July I started researching the RWD swap, mainly because I wanted something different than the thousands of other boosted hondas, and because I love the feel of mid/rear engine platforms.

Unfortunately I found little information regarding the rear suspension of the Top Fuel Sol. Originally I was interested in the CRV rear setup, but was unconvinced it would work.. which is when I stumbled upon Cody's (Tinker219) RWD Del sol project. I was struck by the pure brilliance of it! Cody used the front suspension from a 92-95 civic, and a extensive tube frame to mount the engine rearward. Along with Dave's (RaceCity_USA) Mid engine Integra GSR I was inspired to do more with my own vehicle using an amalgamation of the two principles. I should note that I have the utmost admiration and respect for both other mid engine RWD projects. My own project was in no means meant to duplicate their exact process or results. I delayed releasing any information regarding my own project until now out of respect for the work which Dave (RaceCity_USA) has been doing on an on-going basis since August 2004 - A true testament to his inginuity, knowledge and dedication to the project.

At the end of October 2004 I commenced my own Mid engine project.

Engine pulled for rebuild



Here is the donor vehicle 1993 Civic DX Hatchback
Well.. at least the front half (October 31st 2004)



Since I wished to use the frame from the civic instead of a tubeframe; I started tacking supports to the inside of the bay so nothing would shift once I started trimming it down to fit.



For every hour I've spend in my tiny (12'x 20' ish) garage on this, I've probably spent a good 3 hours thinking on my next move. The hardest part of this project thus far was the frame itself. Of the many issues to consider before starting, the three major ones were track,wheelbase and alignment of the rear suspension and frame. I decided the first order of business was to level the car with jacks and build a jig.(November 8th 2004)




I'm still looking for the pictures of cutting the Del sol trunk to peices, I will post them when I find them. At any rate it was the point of no return. Once cutting was complete on both donor and Sol, I dropped donor suspension under the body and started to align it using the jig and measurements from the front Del Sol suspension. Having identical suspensions was key to having the proper frame position. Floor to cross member heights, floor to frame heights everything was measured and matched at the rear of the car.(December 11th 2004)



Pic of boxing up the frame rails with 1/4 inch mild steel plate (January 6th 2005)





Because the outer frame rail (what the fender mounts to) was cut from the donor suspension I decided to beef up the strut towers by tying it into the del sol. I'm glad I did too, upon welding to it I discovered how thin they really are It made for a very long night of very slow work. Without this added support I am certain it would buckle.(January 25th 2005)





Heres a better view of the jig once the car was moveable. (February 12th 2005)


Type R hub conversion with brembo slotted rotors


Sheet metal and frame work (no specific date)




Finally the engine is in May 16th 2005!
(This is my mock up engine)




Thanks for looking! This is far from the finished product, much more to come!

-Scott P.

[hondaZvic]

im very impressed.

i like how u made the rear stut towers look alot better.

but, i do notice aot of open holes on ur engine.

oh, and for working in the snow u deserve a

[BlueIntegraBoy]

I love these types of projects. Can't wait to see the outcome.

[WhiteSol]

Originally Posted by hondaZvic

im very impressed.

i like how u made the rear stut towers look alot better.

but, i do notice aot of open holes on ur engine.

oh, and for working in the snow u deserve a

That engine is currently just a mock up motor, to allow me to finish engine fitment dependant projects. In the next few days I will be making my custom wiring harness, completing the shifter assembly etc.

The actual built motor will be back from the builder very shortly

Here is a few pics of a side scoop I had in mind for the rear engine. Still not certain if I will use this or make something from CF instead. Either way its bolt on at the moment and easily removable if I change my mind





Thanks for your comments!
-Scott

[Del Sol SiR]

Awesome!

[RARE_EG2]

i give you lots of credit for your time and effort.. from me!!

[hondaZvic]

oooh, cool.

that scoop is nice too, creative. i dont know if u like this idea but the one on the older mr2's is nice. (the scoop that they have come out from the back up and over the side, on the driver's side)

now of course, this carbon fiber u talk about is always a nice touch.

[jarel]

wow....that is one crazy piece of work. Good job on doing all that, can't wait to see more updates on this

[_Cyclone_]

Originally Posted by BlueIntegraBoy

I love these types of projects. Can't wait to see the outcome.

Same here. These types of projects are the best! If I had the time and money, I'd start my own project. I've always wanted to build a lightweight racecar/go kart from scratch...

[mahdavimotorsports]

Nice. That's alot like the set-up we used building the CR-NSX!

NICE WORK!!!

[canis]

damn an H22T, mid engine del sol.... a CRNSX, damn whats next... wait i dont want to know... now i feel slower then hell..

[hatch34]

holy hell that thing is crazy.
that thing will be an eye catcher well done keep up the great work

[WhiteSol]

mahdavimotorsports,
That CR-NSX blows my mind!! Good to see it can be done! I was very interested in the NSX subframe and suspension also, however the cost of getting it would have put my project budget past my means . Great project, keep up the innovation!

Originally Posted by hondaZvic

oooh, cool.

that scoop is nice too, creative. i dont know if u like this idea but the one on the older mr2's is nice. (the scoop that they have come out from the back up and over the side, on the driver's side)

now of course, this carbon fiber u talk about is always a nice touch.

Its funny you should mention the older MR2, when building my Sol I've often gone to the wreckers to get some inspiration and ideas from them. Infact I will be using the MR2 throttle cable! I'm not too crazy with body work yet, but the sidescoop on the older and newer mid engine cars look great - so once I go to get it repainted I may consider that style for sure.

I'll post more pics today of the intake tube and scoop, shift mechanism and ebrake mechanism if I get time to mount them.

Thank you everyone for your enthusiasm!

[_Cyclone_]

Just curious though... when the suspension and frame are complete and you remove the car from the jig... is it going to sit higher/lower on either the front or back? It would be really cool if it turned out to look completly stock from the outside and then see it do some insane drifts. That will drift nicely!

[playAho]

very nice keep us posted cant wait to see more!!!!

[RynoDyno312]

More info on the CRX/NSX, please

[WhiteSol]

Originally Posted by CycloneBlue_1.6EL

Just curious though... when the suspension and frame are complete and you remove the car from the jig... is it going to sit higher/lower on either the front or back? It would be really cool if it turned out to look completly stock from the outside and then see it do some insane drifts. That will drift nicely!

I now have GC coilovers with tokico illuminas, ride height will be set back to stock. Hopefully it will stop raining here soon and I'll be able to take it outside and take a few pics of how it sits.
As for being able to drift, anything is possible



Today's progress pics -
Intake tube for side scoop



Shifter assembly (inverted the second shifter, added adjustment bolt)





Dual wilwood compact remote master cylinders mounted to single piece of 3/16" plate steel. Slides and balance bar control movement when compressed by the ebrake cable. These are the .750" bore cylinders and should be able to lock the rear brakes quite easily
Originally I was attempting to use the NSX rear caliper (mechanical vs hydraulic), however it turned out to be too much work.


Cheers,
Scott

[hondaZvic]

nice, it seems like ur moving fast on this... how long have u been working on it so far? and do u have a guess as to when it will be driveable?

[WhiteSol]

Originally Posted by hondaZvic

nice, it seems like ur moving fast on this... how long have u been working on it so far? and do u have a guess as to when it will be driveable?

I've been physically working on it for the last 8 months (since the end of october 2004), planning was 3 months before that.. so if you count planning almost a year.
I try to get roughly 3-4 hours per night, 4-5 nights a week. I managed to get a solid 12 hours of work in today, spent 2 hours trying to get the paper thin metal inside the gas filler hole looking a little better; very frustrating . You'd think honda would make a section that oxidizes so easily a little thicker..

I'm aiming for mid july to have it running, seems like a lot of work left but its coming along.

[Stoich EG2]

wow, another one. now i want one

[95civ]

Awesome looking project man. Can't wait to see the finish project. The time and effort get two huge :thumbsup: from me.

[jbell]

subscribeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[SETI20]

Holy crap.... you're out of your mind!!!


.....show me more!!! :D

[Solless]

wow

[3rdgencrx]

wow this is awesome!!!